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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: What ... what was it-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: All right. But what we do know is ... you're advising us that the ECB didn't capitalise the banks, that the funding, in effect, was a form of quasi funding capital. But is it the case that, in reality, without that funding, the banks were dead, illiquid and insolvent?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: So in that regard, were the banks that were covered by the guarantee still solvent and therefore qualifying for ECB-ELA funding at the time of Minister Lenihan’s last letter to Mr. Trichet?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: The ECB have a very specific interpretation and that was laid out in Mr. Trichet’s correspondence repetitively back to Mr. Lenihan.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: But there were then questions, and your theory, if I understand it right, is that because the State is standing behind the banks, which it was in 2008, and the State is solvent, the banks are de factosolvent.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: By November 2009 - or, sorry, November 2010 - there is a serious question with regard to the State’s solvency, so there is a serious question de factowith regard to the banks’ solvency. So in terms of the position of where the ECB are coming at that time, are there now concerns that are genuinely placed inside in the ECB with regard to the structure of ELA funding, with regard...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: Were they not implying that in the correspondence? You were saying there was a lot of implication that was stated in Mr. Trichet’s letter, but that was really what the real implication of those discussions was.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: Okay. Mr. Cardiff, when he was before this inquiry here, in his witness statement, commented upon Jean-Claude Trichet’s letter in response to one of 19 November 2010 to the late Minister for Finance, and he says: "In many ways this letter was entirely superfluous, since it was already clear by the time of the letter that the Government was going to opt into a [bailout] programme."...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: Okay. So was Ireland bounced into a bailout programme or was it inevitable?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: Was it inevitable? According ... by Mr. Cardiff’s testimony, he is saying - I repeat - “In many ways the letter was entirely superfluous, since it was already clear by the time of the letter that the Government was going to opt into a programme.”

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: But they are all programmes by their nature.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: But if ... just to test the proposition - the proposition being that Ireland was bounced into a programme and if we weren’t bounced into that programme we wouldn’t have required a programme - is that an accurate proposition? Was Ireland ultimately going to go into a bailout programme one way or the other?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: Were you aware, or did you witness the engagement the inquiry had with Mr. Trichet in Kilmainham?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: Okay. You are familiar with much of the content of it. When this proposition was being tested against Mr. Trichet - and one of the purposes of engagement with Mr. Trichet was that we would have ... that that engagement would be evidence that could we test with other witnesses, so this afternoon is an opportunity to test it with another witness - Mr. Trichet says: "As you know" - he’s...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: The position, according to Mr. Cardiff, would have been ... according to Mr. Cardiff when he was before ... he said, “The stronger the position you have the better your negotiation situation is.” By running out of cash, does your negotiation position get weaker or stronger?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: I just want to stay with the proposition that we have in front of us. If Ireland had delayed its entry into a bailout programme, would the cost have been larger and would our negotiation hand have been weaker?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: You don’t think it would have made a difference. I have another proposition here; it is a proposal for a very short five-minute comfort break. I am going to do that. However, while we are suspending, I just want to advise the witness that he is still under oath. You can refer to any legal advice and support you have here and we will resume in five minutes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: We will resume in public session and, in doing so, continue on. And if I can invite Deputy O'Donnell, please. Deputy, you have ten minutes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Ciarán Lynch: Okay, thank you. Deputy Pearse Doherty.

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