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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Yes And you both then spoke about, you know, various dates that had been set for the wind-down of the bank - 2020 perhaps and then 2016. Was it at any stage considered whether there was the possibility of turning this bank around and making a good bank of it?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Right.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay. Did you believe that it was possible, Mr. Aynsley, to take the bank forward on a different basis?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Right, okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay. Mr. Dukes, you note in your statement that one of the board's urgent key tasks was the identification of a series of legacy issues. Could you, please, provide an insight into the legacy issues identified in the context of lending and recovery policies and risk assessment and appetite?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay. Gentlemen, the ... you were under pressure from the euro system to sell off the assets so the banks had money to pay back to the ECB as I understand it. Did you feel you were under political pressure from the State or from the Government for any political reasons to advance sales more quickly?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: And, lastly, Mr. Dukes, this is to yourself. The appropriateness of the relationships between the Government, the Oireachtas, the banking sector and the property sector and in your written statement you say, "This issue has been a rich source of modern mythology." Considering the history of tribunals which have shown relationships between political parties, politicians, developers and then...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Thank you, Ms Tinney, and your conciseness I will try to emulate. You were on the board from 2000, 2007, 2008-2011. Could you just very briefly, if you would please, recap the origins and the founding ethos of what became the EBS, formerly the Educational Building Society?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay. But it was set up in its ... set up as an assistance to teachers and some other public sector companies.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Yes, okay. Thank you. Why, as a mutual building society, did EBS see it as strategically appropriate to enter the commercial lending market do you think?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay, so there would have been-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: -----there would have been a high consciousness among management, it's a question, that other banks in the Irish market were seeking double-digit growth. And, for example, in evidence here the chairman of Allied Irish Banks referenced Anglo Irish Bank as being constantly put up to them as a model to be followed, putting pressure on them, he felt. Would that be a similar situation?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay. And was there much time in your period on the board allocated to the strategy in relation to commercial property? Was there much discussion on what that strategy should be and how it should be evolved?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay, now the-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: Yes. The commercial property loans grew from €460 million in 2001 to €1.7 billion in 2007 and €2.3 billion in 2008 - a 500% increase which by any standards is quite acute. I'm puzzled as to how that tallies against the board minutes of 31 May 2002 when the strategic plans said it would be a question of putting ... well, I'll quote the "Toe in the Water" and "The Toe in...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Joe Higgins: It's simply that ... the page is 95 in your book-----

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