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Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: I thank the Chair and members for their time. I am pleased, on behalf of my Department and the officials present, to have the opportunity to present the Department's Supplementary Estimate to the members of the select committee. I have been asked by the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise and Trade and Employment to express his apologies for not being able to attend. He is otherwise...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: My understanding is that, while the European Commission has approved the scheme in recent weeks, the 40% had broken the ceiling. The framework has changed and will probably change again during 2023 in terms of its being extended. It might allow us to return to the scheme later if need be. We understand that the scheme, as designed, is the best way to reach as many businesses as we possibly...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: They are but, again, that is something we track across the various Departments to see if there are schemes from which we could benefit or if somebody else has pushed it beyond. If we think we can do that, of course we do, but, generally-----

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: From what I can see, most companies are within the rules. I do not have the list of them all in front of me. When we last had this conversation a few weeks ago, however, most schemes had. Again, the question is how to reach the majority of businesses more quickly. We think the TBESS is a very beneficial scheme that will reach potentially hundreds of thousands of businesses in a quick way...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: No matter what the scheme, if you are trying to potentially reach in excess of 300,000, it is going to be impossible to have a perfectly seamless design. The rules are there to try to reach and support as many companies as possible as quickly as we can. Will some companies that do not need support qualify for it? Possibly, but the capacity is not in the system to go through every company...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: We engage regularly with all representative bodies, as the Deputy will know, and try to work with them on the design of these schemes. The Minister has said several times, including on budget day, that the scheme would initially cover gas and electricity and companies not supported under the scheme would then be considered. I do not have a figure for the number coming forward or what...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: At many of our meetings with stakeholders, this issue has not been at the top of the agenda. If the Deputy has a list of companies in this situation - I have not met a large number of them - I will be happy to work with them and make a case. The Department of Finance, through the Minister, has said the initial design of the scheme was to get it approved, operational and out the door quickly...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: I have not read the report yet, so I am not going to have a conversation on it just yet. It is not an area we will spend money on between now and Christmas, which is the topic of this meeting. It is an issue on which I will engage with the Deputy again. We take every opportunity to bring in flexibility and encourage more people into the workforce. We are open to discussing and debating...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: On the breakdown of the €61.35 million in capital savings, €15 million relates to the temporary partial credit guarantee scheme. The success of that scheme meant companies were able to repay their debts and did not have to draw down State funding, which was positive. It showed that credit guarantee schemes are useful, can work and are not as costly as may have been thought...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: The nature of the TBESS is to try to reach the majority of businesses that have been impacted. I think the majority would qualify for the scheme. The Deputy is correct to say that certain sectors are impacted in a greater way. That is why the combination of schemes, using TBESS and the loan guarantee as an option and the other supports that are there to reduce energy bills, will help. It...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: Was the Deputy referring to the TBESS with his final question?

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: There are a number of schemes. Under the TBESS, the maximum that any company can draw down if it has a number of locations and MPRNs is €30,000 per month. For example, a retailer might have seven or eight stores. It depends on the ownership mechanism, but the cap will be €30,000 and will apply to companies across the board. I cannot say who will or will not apply for it. I...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: It is open to any business.

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: We will monitor the drawdown of the scheme and its implications over the coming months. We will see whether we can make improvements to the scheme as we proceed. What we as a Department have to focus on are the hundreds of thousands of businesses that badly need this money ASAP to support their enterprises and jobs. When I speak to them, they are not obsessed with who else is getting...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: Potentially hundreds of thousands of businesses will apply for this. I cannot justify or explain every potential applicant. When we see who draws it down, we can discuss it further. If we can make changes to improve it, we will. What are we doing in the budget that was announced? Two things. This is to allocate this funding to support hundreds of businesses who badly need it as soon...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: There are a number of schemes to help a range of businesses and we wanted to design them as quickly as possible under the EU framework to reach businesses who need help and support. Within that are businesses of all shapes and sizes, Irish-owned and not Irish-owned, which might avail of these grants and which, we can argue until the cows come home, do not need them. It is more important to...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Damien English: It is speed and the legal mechanism to be able to reach these companies. If you tie it up in knots and try to segregate and pick out people who you think should not get it, that can complicate a scheme. We have to design the scheme to be as uncomplicated as possible and make it available as quickly as possible.

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