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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: We have scenarios at present where people are looking for loans from some of the BPFI's members in the banks. It is option 1, which is full demolition and rebuilding and it is stated very clearly by one of the main street lenders that people need to rip out the foundation as well. That is not part of the scheme, but at least one bank is demanding that in these circumstances and I do not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: For a remediated house, Ms Byrne is making it clear to this committee the banks do not require certification on the entire property. The banks, therefore, will be willing to lend to a person to purchase an affected house that still has deleterious materials in the foundations or inner blocks provided the outer leaf was replaced and certified. She is saying the BPFI's members are happy to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I have a question for her on the insurance aspect of this. At present, some homeowners cannot get their homes insured despite the fact deleterious material is not a peril under the insurance, so they would not be able to claim anyway. Maybe Ms Murdock can explain why that is and why insurance companies are now only providing contents-only insurance for some affected houses. In the context...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Is Ms Murdock aware of any of her members not renewing or removing insurance from affected properties currently that are not remediated?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: It has not then been brought to Ms Murdock's attention that impacted households are in some cases being provided with contents-only insurance and cannot get their homes insured because there is defective material present.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: All right, but regarding the phrase "a good state of repair", has Ms Murdock been in one of these houses?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: It might be helpful to the committee, if it is possible, for Insurance Ireland to contact its members to ask what happens when, on renewal or the taking out of a new policy, the insurance company is informed there is deleterious material in the blocks. What is the impact then in terms of insurance and has insurance not been provided on that basis? Finally, I will turn to the BPFI. I spoke...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: With respect, banks can do that for those who are eligible. I made the point that this is not everybody. There are people going to the financial institutions now. The people who are rebuilding at the moment and who are having to put their hands in their pocket or to beg, borrow or steal the €70,000 to €80,000 are going to the financial institutions but the interest rates are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that. Thanks.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Given everything Ms Murdock has said and the fact that deleterious material is not a peril that ever was covered by insurance, should there be any issue with an affected home being denied home insurance on that basis? Obviously it should not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: That is an hour and ten minutes away. Has the Leas-Chathaoirleach forgotten to set his watch?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. Is it fair to say that the expectation is that the standard will change?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I thank Ms Murdock, Mr. Hayes, and Ms Byrne for their answers. They were very clear. If there is certification, they will provide either a mortgage if somebody wants to purchase that house or get a top-up loan or refinance the house or they will insure the house. The standards are going to change. When that happens, will the companies still provide a mortgage for a house that was...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I refer to the commitment that was given that the house would be mortgageable if there was a certificate of remediation. The point I am making is that the certificate of remediation will be based on an old standard. There will be a new standard and we do not know what that will say. I am asking whether there is a major risk for those who are rebuilding at the minute. If that standard...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: The certification will not change. The certification is provided on the basis of the work and the standard that existed at the time. The problem is the mortgageability of the houses in a future event and we all know around this room that the standards are about to change. By the time that somebody comes in, for example were Deputy Durkan to come in to buy that house in Donegal that has...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Can I make the point, and this is very real, if I am that person who is going through the scheme at the minute and if I have had to find the €70,000 or €80,000 myself to rebuild my home or do the outer leaf or whatever the part is and the standards change - which they will - I need to know that I can refinance the house or sell it in the future. I need to know that the piece of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: It is. That is why everybody said we have to get this standard review done as quickly as possible. I will ask the same question of Ms Murdock. Obviously the insurance industry is integral to this as one cannot get a mortgage without insurance and there is also construction insurance for self-builds. What if the standard changes?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: The whole thing is evolving. We talked about mica at the start and then finding out that mica was not involved. There was a whole learning experience and the redress group obviously has engaged with people to try to make sure that there is an understanding in organisations. I know that the BPFI have met Insurance Ireland a number of times and the redress group has done the same. Is there...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I thank Ms Murdock.

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