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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: What communication has been received since then?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: I think that is totally unsatisfactory. In the light of the Minister's comments this morning, the serious concern expressed by the Committee of Public Accounts and the fact that we are fed up with that nonsense, will Mr. O'Brien send someone from here to ring Mr. McPhillips to ask him what he will do next? Mr. McPhillips heard the Minister's statement this morning, knows what is happening...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: At the last meeting I asked about the auditors and we were told about EY. We acted on the accounts from CRC where it clearly states that this is a fee. One can spread the blame from EY to the directors who signed the accounts and then to Mr. Kiely who raised it as he did. Enormous damage has been done to the charities and to the sector. Much as we were shocked by the revelations about the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: Could Ms Day or the HSE check that Mr. John Cregan is now there acting for them? A valid point was made last week on Mr. Brian Conlan being on the board. Do any board minutes indicate that Mr. Kiely raised this matter with Mr. Conlan or the board at any time, or was it just last week that it was raised here at the Public Accounts Committee meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: We have to get this information out. Deputy Fleming stressed the point of public confidence and trust. This is a matter of major public concern. This committee must address that. Last week Mr. Kiely said his suggestions around this fund were "kicked out of the water". He said, "I was told it is what it is and that is the way it is to stay." It gave the impression a case had been made...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: So that was one occasion.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: To close this part of our meeting and go to Dr. McLoughlin, we will write to the directors of the CRC who were there at that time, Mr. Kiely and EY, along the lines of what Deputy Fleming suggested. We will send them a transcript of the last meeting and this meeting and ask each of them to respond. We will do that immediately. I thank the witnesses for attending and I invite Dr. McLoughlin...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: I thank Deputy McDonald and call Deputy Dowds.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: The clerk will now bring in the witnesses.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: We will deal now with No. 7, 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts: Vote 38 - Health, Vote 39 - Health Service Executive, Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration. Before we begin our meeting I ask members, witnesses and those in the Visitors Gallery to turn off their mobile telephones because they interfere with the sound transmission of the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: Thank you. I welcome Mr. Barry O'Brien of the HSE and ask him to introduce his officials.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: Thank you. I welcome Ms Mary Day, chief executive officer, and Ms Caroline Piggot, financial director, of the Mater Misericordiae University Hospital to the meeting. I also welcome Ms Buckley and Mr. Brazel from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. We propose to deal first with the issues relating to the Mater hospital. The witnesses representing the hospital may, if they...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: This should not be interpreted as our complaining about the work. I would be quite happy to sit five days a week.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: We want to do it more thoroughly. In dealing with the biggest property company in the world, NAMA, one needs certain expertise when all the experts are on one side of the room. That is the case with many agencies and Departments. We need to be equipped to do that job fully and properly. While I accept what the Comptroller and Auditor General said, and this is no criticism of his office,...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: No. 3C is documents relating to today's committee meeting, correspondence received on 18 December from Dr. Ambrose McLoughlin, Secretary General, Department of Health, re opening statement, to be noted and published; correspondence received on 18 December from Mr. Ray Mitchell, HSE, re briefing material for today's meeting, to be noted and published; and correspondence received on 19 December...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: That brings us to our work programme. We will review our work programme again on 16 January 2014. I propose that on that date Mr. Brian Conlan, former CEO of the Central Remedial Clinic, CRC, would be before us. Depending on the information that arises from today's meeting we may agree to others in terms of section 38. Is there any other business? Can we agree the agenda for 16 January,...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: I suggest that in today's meeting we deal with the pension aspect of the CRC staff and the payment to the Mater hospital first. Once we get that dealt with, the person concerned can leave. It is a separate issue.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: I will ask the clerk to check with members, the Department of Finance and NAMA to arrange a meeting, bearing in mind members’ availability.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Dec 2013)

John McGuinness: We are not going to do that. The material available from NAMA or anywhere else should be before us. There can be no excuses. I will ask the clerk to the committee to make the arrangements.

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