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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is the very minimum. We are here on behalf of a lot of people. We are not here just for ourselves. I am shocked by the deferential treatment the witnesses gave. They should have shown a bit of deferential treatment to the Committee of Public Accounts and come here ready to answer the questions. Do the witnesses not understand our frustration? We are coming across a bit angry but I...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: The criticism is not that the minutes are not in the folder. The criticism is that Mr. Ó Foghlú says he has not even seen the minutes and does not know whether they actually exist. That is the criticism. It is not that we wanted them to hand here but we do not know how Mr. Ó Foghlú could be fully briefed to attend here. He said there was a series of at least 15...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am sorry, I have made my point.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Does the Secretary General understand where we are at?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am sure during the course of the meeting somebody will get into the specifics of that. Does Mr. Ó Foghlú appreciate the points we are making-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: -----that there was a series of meeting and Mr. Ó Foghlú does not know whether there are minutes or not, and if they were there he has not seen them, and then somebody says some of them are online. When the Minister was going into the Dáil to deal with this, how was Mr. Ó Foghlú preparing parliamentary replies, which Mr. Ó Foghlú, as Secretary General,...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Get the information.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy is on her last question.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: I call Deputy Aylward.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is a question for Caranua. That is for the next session. We have a second set of witnesses coming in from Caranua. We have the Department of Education and Skills witnesses here to discuss the awards from the old redress scheme. The Caranua people that the Deputy is talking about-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: We just said that the Caranua witnesses will come in when we are finished with this session. They are waiting outside. Those questions are for Caranua.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: We might even hear their opening statement in a few minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: The Caranua witnesses are all coming in in a few minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes. Over the years they were the settlements to the people who went to the redress board. The average figure is €60,000. Caranua is the recent scheme and that group will be before the committee shortly.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: They will appear before the committee shortly.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Before we conclude, I have a brief question. With regard to the original estimate of €250 million, Mr. Ó Foghlú mentioned a figure of around a couple of thousand cases that may be in the system. On what figure did you base that €250 million? Was it 2,000 or 3,000?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Where did that figure come from?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: What was the figure?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: The Department had 800 specific cases and it estimated there would be 2,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Of the 139 institutions covered under the scheme, the obvious starting point is how many people went through the 139 institutions over the years. That is the total population if one is trying to get an estimate. You should start at that figure rather than just those who have already commenced legal proceedings. What is the answer to that? How many people went through the 139 institutions?

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