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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Okay, I am sorry to cut Mr. Hogan off. I thank him very much. The next question I want to ask contradicts what I was coming at in my first line of questioning. It is a concern, however. Earlier this year, there was a significant reduction in Bank of Ireland's cash services across the State and the closure of numerous bank branches. Subsequently, Ulster Bank pulled out of the Irish...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: The Secretary General will not mind if I ask Mr. John McCarthy the same question. As chief economist, what does he think about it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Really?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Mr. John McCarthy has no comment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: It goes without saying-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: There has, yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: It must be said that the banking sector moved faster than society in that regard. I recognise that and the statistics are very clear. It is dropping all the time. I am not burying my head in the sand. Sectors such as agriculture and small business such as cafes, florists and bakeries rely on cash payments. Many old age pensioners also rely on cash. They trust it. It was a hugely...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: I will relinquish my times and wait for my second round of questioning if that would be more appropriate.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: I will wait until the next round as there seems to be a better flow.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Mr. McCarthy said the average debt is at a very low level compared to where it was. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Can I make a point to you?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Debt is not always a bad thing; I know Mr. McCarthy knows that. However, we have reached a situation in this country where people, who have attained an education up to level 9 on the national framework of qualifications, NFQ, and are working in jobs where they are paid in excess of €50,000 and have a possible joint household income of around €100,000, cannot buy in Dublin.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Mr. McCarthy was kind of saying low debt was a good thing.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: But what are we going to do about it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Stall the digger.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Through the Chair, please. I am asking my line of questions and when I want an answer, I will ask Mr. McCarthy for it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: Hang on. I wish to make this important point. We have reached a situation where the availability of rental property in Dublin is at a record low. People who traditionally would easily have been able to buy could have done so but billions of euro are being wasted every year in rental payments that otherwise would allow them to purchase homes if the lending rules were done properly. I...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: But he was insinuating that through his comments.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2021
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2021
Chapter 2 - Net Cost of Banking Stabilisation Measures
Chapter 22 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(17 Nov 2022)

James O'Connor: In response to that, there is a balance to be met-----

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