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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Okay. There would have been substitution of materials, so it was proposed to use stainless steel sinks instead of another type or change the floors, for example. The board thought it could save €66 million but it saved €20 million. The figure then went to €980 million. How did we go from the €20 million being saved to the €980 million figure?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I have enough paperwork so will the witness explain it to the committee please?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Was there originally a combustible material included?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: What was the impact of Grenfell? What was included before that was changed after the Grenfell fire?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: That was at the time, which was before the Grenfell fire.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: That is no problem.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: That is the job of a quantity surveyor.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: After the break when we are doing up the other chart, it would be handy if we could get a figure for the fees paid to all of the companies listed in the column. How much were the experts and consultants brought to stop from this happening paid?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: What is her background?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Was the man from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Mr. Quinn, on the finance sub-committee?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Therefore, theoretically he knew before June. He was in that group that reported to the board.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: He knew before the whole board did, as Mr. Costello said earlier. I find it very disturbing that the head of procurement, who was on the board, knew about this. Although Mr. Breslin expects that communication would have been carried out through the normal governance structures, let us call a spade a spade, we know that is not how it works. He would have been talking to people. He works in...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I never said it did not. I just expressed my concern that the head of procurement in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform knew about this and neither the Minister or Mr. Breslin, who is in charge of writing the cheques, did. It is really concerning. He was also chair of the finance sub-committee that reported. I am going backward to where I intended to go. Mr. Breslin is the...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: The project got through the planning process.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: The design seems to have been done incorrectly. The fees went up by 63%, so it did not really work out. As for the procurement, it seems very obvious that there were issues. To move on to something else, what size is the €500,000 office in square metres?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: It cost €500,000. Is there somebody who can do sums? The upper end of what one pays to fit out a corporate office is approximately €2,000 per metre square. Does this cost exceed that? Can anybody do the sums for me?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: The fit-out is relatively good value.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I am just pointing that out because I do not want to have a go at the witnesses all the time, just when absolutely necessary.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: On BAM and this guaranteed maximum price to finish this project and produce a hospital, do we know BAM's turnover, margin, and profitability? The reason I am asking for these is because I am concerned about liquidity. I am concerned about what will happen if something goes wrong. I am getting concerned about these mechanical and electrical subcontractors. Who is going to fall on this? We...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Kate O'Connell: How is happiness gauged in accountancy terms? What has Mr. Costello done to make himself happy about this?

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