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Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Is Mr. O'Brien accountable for systems failures within the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: As the person who is accountable for systems failures within the HSE, does he not think it is appropriate that he takes responsibility for them?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: That is because Mr. O'Brien will not answer the question, which is very simple. Is he responsible for systems failures as director general of the HSE, yes or no?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: It is Mr. O'Brien who is going round in circles now. I am asking him a simple question. Is he responsible for systems failure? Is he the person who is to be held to account for systems failures as director general of the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Mr. O'Brien is the person who is to be held to account for those systems failures.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Do we know how many of the 209 women have terminal cancer?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: My first question relates to open disclosure. We were taken through the process of where we are and what has happened as regards the pilot projects. We have a letter dated 8 February which states that, moving forward, a number of initiatives will take place. One is the roll-out of the programme to GPs and practice staff and another is the development of guidelines for national screening...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: As Dr. Holohan said, there is a policy of open disclosure within the national screening services but no written guidelines on how it is to be implemented. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: The only thing on paper of which we have been told relates to the circular of 2014, which stated that anyone who is affected by the audit should be told. Is there anything else, in the Department or the HSE or anywhere, which goes through how open disclosure should work in the national screening services?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Prior to that there was nothing specific.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: I might come back to this issue later. There are 11 cases relating to cervical care. Mr. Breen said there were four claims relating to the breast cancer screening programme.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Do we have any information relating to the third screening programme, for bowel cancer?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Can Mr. Breen say if the four screening services have similar results to those of cervical checks, in terms of false negatives or misdiagnosis etc?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Has an audit been done, or is one being done, of BreastCheck? We have four cases with the State Claims Agency at the moment.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Can we find out the answer? It is important to find out whether an audit process is under way, given that there are four cases with the State Claims Agency. Of the 11 cases, one is finalised and in another one there is a letter of intent, so we have nine cases. There are quarterly meetings with the HSE executive on cases. I know the answer to this question because we were told on Tuesday...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: When did the HSE become aware there are ten cases with regard to CervicalCheck?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: I appreciate it is not Dr. Crowley's area but it is one of the reasons why there should have been a deputy who can answer these questions.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: We requested it because there is now a situation where we have questions that cannot be answered. It is unfortunate. I am not pointing the finger at any of the individuals who are left here.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: There is nobody in here who can tell me - maybe somebody in the Department may know this - when the HSE was made aware of these ten cases through those quarterly meetings. In one of them, the Vicky Phelan case, which is now concluded, the State Claims Agency was only made aware of it on 12 February 2018. I am trying to get some information on when the HSE was made aware of the other cases....

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Mr. Breen does not have that information off-hand.

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