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Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: What kind of questions would it be proper for an interview committee to put to a serving judge? That is the reason I have at all times opposed the idea of requiring serving judges to go through the evaluation procedures this Bill proposes. I would like to hear, if somebody could tell me in the course of the next 40 minutes, what kind of questions could be put by way of interview to serving...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: What made the candidate apply? Is Ms Justice so and so not happy in the High Court?

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: I cannot understand any value emanating from an interview process, but I can see a lot of potential bias creeping in on the part of the interview process. If the commission is trying to work out which of three judges is the most meritorious and to rank them in order of preference, what interview process would lead them to form an opinion along those lines?

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: He said "idiotic".

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: Let us go back to basics.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: I think we are losing the run of ourselves. First, a member of the High Court, be it a man or a woman, is already, as a matter of law, deemed not merely capable but entirely qualified to serve at the invitation of the Chief Justice or the President of the Court of Appeal in either of those courts.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: Their merits as a judge are already determined. They are suitable to do that job.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: Accordingly, what is the function of the commission in trying to decide as between one, two or three judges that one is more qualified or more suitable than another to be appointed a judge of the Court of Appeal or the Supreme Court? I have not had a satisfactory answer to the point that I have raised. Senator Noone said there are certain aspects of oneself that one might like to bring...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: The Minister proposes that the presidencies of those courts should be determined by an entirely separate process in which the commission would have no function whatsoever. The organisational skills factor does not really apply. Senator Noone said maybe there is some aspect of oneself that one would like to put forward to the interview committee. What kind of aspect could be put forward...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: I presume that is for the purpose of ensuring that the interviews are more or less equal for every applicant and that the board did not ask somebody about their experience in the GAA when the other person was down as the head of their local bridge club. I presume it is to ensure they cannot be asked questions which are unfair. However, we are fairly clear that one cannot ask a candidate how...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: One simply could not ask questions along those lines. If somebody cannot come up with a question which could be put at an interview-----

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: -----and assist the appointments commission in deciding that one person was more suitable than another, I would like to hear what the questions are. So far, I have been told by Senator Noone that maybe somebody would like to put forward something about him or her which would not otherwise be apparent. There is a place to do that, namely, in a CV. If it is supposed to be that one is a more...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: -----and people who have applied to be judges are very charming, social and agreeable people. Some people appointed to the Bench would not immediately fit into those categories. It says nothing about their capacity to be a good or bad judge thereafter. When one looks at the attributes provided in this section, one asks how they will be evaluated by interview. For instance, on the...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: That is a mixed metaphor.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: With non-judges.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: The Minister has stated I have consistently argued that sitting members of the superior courts should not be obliged to go through an interview process or to the commission. That is my view. The Minister then states he is considering an amendment under which at least the three most senior positions would be exempt from the process.Does that hint at ordinary members of the Supreme Court also...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: The Minister further states that at least those three positions will be dealt with by means of an amendment from him. Will it be no more than those three positions? We are being deliberately kept in the dark on that issue. I have stated again and again that I see no reason whatsoever for the commission having any function in determining who becomes an ordinary member of the Supreme Court....

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: Yes. It is not open to the Chief Justice, as a functioning member of this commission - if it is ever established - to state that he or she is opposed to an appointment or does not favour a particular judge because he or she is a conservative or a liberal. That is and always has been the fundamental flaw with this legislation. That is why, when we raised the issue of what useful purpose an...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: I know the Government did not hold a majority. I am asking whether the Government opposed the proposition.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jun 2019)

Michael McDowell: I am surprised by its inclusion because it is something of a departure. It was not part of the architecture of the Bill as originally intended. I wish to know whether the Government accepted or opposed the amendment on Dáil Committee Stage, irrespective of whether it had a majority in the committee.

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