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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: One cannot help observing that the delays are obvious the further west one goes. I do not know who I have offended by saying that, but it is a statement of fact. The further west one goes, the slower they get.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is what the chart shows, but I am in trouble straight away.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: If I am in trouble it means somebody is listening, so that is a good thing. We will proceed with the rest of our correspondence. We had many issues to cover with the third level colleges at the last meeting. The next item is category A correspondence for today's meeting. Nos. 410A and 411A are the briefing documents from the Department of Education and Skills and Caranua. We note and...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Of the 70, 12 were direct employees on the payroll. They have all been dealt with. Of the 12, ten have submitted claims. Two might not. Perhaps they were senior people who chose not to put in a claim. Of the ten who submitted claims, nine have been paid to date and the other has money on the way. The direct employees on the payroll have been dealt with.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: The other 58 were not on the payroll and submitted an invoice for hours worked on a monthly basis.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: They were contract workers and do not enjoy any of that protection. We would be shallow as individuals if we were to walk away from them.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: The charity regulators only operate in-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: What the Deputy says is right. There are broader issues. We discussed Console with the HSE. Its representatives have been before us specifically to discuss the matter. I am sure there are other cases, but we should not walk away from the one case that has been put in front of us.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: I think it will have to be an ex gratia payment because everybody says that, legally, they do not have to make a payment. We are in that space.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: We need to send a copy of our short discussion to the Department of Health, the Secretary General and the HSE to ask them to reconsider the issue in the light of this discussion, acknowledging that they might not be legally responsible but asking them to think outside the box to deal with it. While on the matter of the HSE, Deputy Catherine Connolly flagged the matter of Mr. Tony O'Brien's...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: The Deloitte report, as he called it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: I want to be precise when he next comes before the committee. I am not going to go back over the Grace matter. The commission of investigation is up and running.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: We will be sending the reply we will receive at the next meeting to the commission of investigation. We are not opening up the general Grace issue. It has been dealt with.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: I think the secretariat know precisely what we are looking for which we will communicate. If somebody has another specific issue that needs to be clarified about the evidence, I ask him or her to contact the secretariat, as a letter will go out early next week on the issue. We have dealt with No. 431C(i) and (ii) on the Console issue. No. 424C is also about Console and the Department of...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: We are now resuming in public session. We are here to examine the Comptroller and Auditor General's Special Report No. 96 in respect of the cost of child abuse inquiry and redress. In the session following this one, we will be examining the financial statements of Caranua, which is an independent State body set up to help people who experience abuse in residential institutions in Ireland...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. McCarthy. We received a letter from Mr. Ó Foghlú on 10 April 2017. In respect of that correspondence which we considered just a few moments ago before we invited him in, we were discussing Waterford Institute of Technology and FeedHenry, a matter he deals with in his letter. All I ask him, because he is here in person, is to liaise with the HEA and perhaps the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Ó Foghlú may proceed with his opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Before I call Deputy Connolly, I wish to clarify a point with the Secretary General. He stated that Caranua was established "to utilise up to €110 million in contributions offered in the aftermath of the publication of the Ryan report to help meet the needs of former residents". Is that an additional €110 million to the figures he previously mentioned or is it €110...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is not an additional €110 million.

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