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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is Mr. Ó Foghlú's job to be here.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: What were the summaries based on?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Do not read out the notes. We will ask for a copy of those notes in a moment. How many meetings were there? What dates were they on?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: What subsequent meetings happened?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Ó Foghlú's officials met again on 7 July 2009.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Carry on.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is the following year.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is four meetings so far.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: There were at least 15 meetings, from what Mr. Ó Foghlú has read out, yet he is saying he does not even know if there are minutes of those meetings.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Ó Foghlú is saying he cannot answer.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Has anyone beside Mr. Ó Foghlú seen or taken minutes of those meetings?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: We are dragging this out now. We are not finished. I am not eating into Deputy Cullinane's time. He is the next speaker. Has any of the people with Mr. Ó Foghlú seen them? This is very important. The letter Mr. Ó Foghlú got from the committee inviting him to this meeting since the Committee of Public Accounts was established made it very clear that when an Accounting...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Which was what year?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: The witnesses are here today to answer the Committee of Public Accounts about a special report by the Comptroller and Auditor General and they are telling me they have not checked the files to know whether there are minutes of meetings there or not.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Does Mr. Tattan not see how it is utterly unsatisfactory for his Department to come in here in this state of unpreparedness? How could anybody make a public appearance and answer the Comptroller and Auditor General''s report in public and say they have not even checked to know if there are minutes of meetings? I find it very difficult. Based on what we are hearing today, the witnesses'...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: Are they easily obtainable?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: So now Mr. Tattan is telling us they are online yet he has never seen them.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is the very minimum. We are here on behalf of a lot of people. We are not here just for ourselves. I am shocked by the deferential treatment the witnesses gave. They should have shown a bit of deferential treatment to the Committee of Public Accounts and come here ready to answer the questions. Do the witnesses not understand our frustration? We are coming across a bit angry but I...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Seán Fleming: The criticism is not that the minutes are not in the folder. The criticism is that Mr. Ó Foghlú says he has not even seen the minutes and does not know whether they actually exist. That is the criticism. It is not that we wanted them to hand here but we do not know how Mr. Ó Foghlú could be fully briefed to attend here. He said there was a series of at least 15...

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