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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (8 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Am I at liberty to ask about notes Nos. 15 and 16? In Mr. McCarthy's audit opinion, would he have drawn attention to these by emphasising the matter?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (8 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: He might elaborate on why he believed it was necessary to make reference to the issue in notes Nos. 15 and 16 on the statement of accounts, which outlines the impact of the liquidation of Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, IBRC, on the bank's balance sheet.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (8 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Were they all-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (8 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Does the Comptroller and Auditor General audit the Central Bank?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (8 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: However, we as a committee cannot examine it.

Death of Former Member: Expressions of Sympathy (6 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I welcome the Clohessy family to the Visitors Gallery. It is great to see so many of the family today. I am delighted to be a part of these expressions of sympathy to the late Peadar. I had a quick look back. Peadar was born in 1933. People referred to his connection with the GAA. He was born when Limerick hurling was coming out of the doldrums and just before a golden age. We won...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Was it down to the sheer volume of payments being made in a particular week?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Individual amounts?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Does Ms O'Donoghue have it to hand?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: If it is okay and not too detailed, perhaps Ms O'Donoghue could provide it now.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Does Ms O'Donoghue have specifics? I am more interested in the employment side and jobseeker's allowance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I refer again to the misappropriation of funds, the €1 million and the CWO. Am I correct that the scheme was funded by the Department but administered by the HSE and CWOs were employees of the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Under what internal control mechanism did the CWOs operate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Did the Department set down such mechanisms in the context of how the fund was administered by the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Was the CWO based in a health centre or was it a more senior person such as the head of the local CWOs? What exactly was the individual's-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Does Ms O'Donoghue understand that internal controls failed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: How was the issue highlighted? Did it arise when the CWOs were transferred from the HSE to the Department following an overall review?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: May I take it that one of the cases involves an amount in excess of €1 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: That is incredible. Some €1 million in taxpayers' money was defrauded from the Department over a six-year period by one individual. That equates to something over €150,000 per year or just over €3,000 per week. Deputies refer people who are in direct circumstances to community welfare officers, CWOs. Why was this level of fraud not identified earlier?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Were the two individuals working in the same geographic area?

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