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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: The gross asset value on the balance sheets of the local authorities is €11 billion but it requires a capital investment of approximately €10 billion. The actual market value of the network has not been valued.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: It is irrelevant, really, because any profits that Irish Water makes will come back into the Exchequer anyway.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: The €200 million will give rise to an increased water charge for the ordinary person.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: What investment will the local authorities have to make, beyond what Irish Water incurs, in terms of the network, as of now? What are the contingencies? Are there investments that local authorities must make before the formal transfer to Irish Water?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is that the rental accommodation scheme?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: On the overall level in 2013, am I correct that there were 1,900 allocations? What was the total number of new allocations, be it through leased or new build?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Would the number of new occupancies be 8,650, between new units and the re-letting of older units? Would that be fair?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: That is approximately 280 per local authority, far below the level of the waiting lists. Mr. McCarthy spoke of a strategy. The rent supplement scheme, which comes under the Department, was designed as a short-term scheme. In many cases, it has ended up becoming a long-term scheme. The RAS, from my perspective, works. It is a relatively well-administered scheme. I have major misgivings...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: There is another issue with the rent supplement scheme with a tiny minority. I would not even measure it. There are issues of anti-social behaviour from tenants. Not only do they become repeat offenders, but the same landlords end up cropping up constantly. Such tenants have given the rent supplement a bad name which is completely unwarranted and they have given the greater number of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I will follow on in that vein on the issue of social housing. In the opening statement by the Comptroller and Auditor General, he noted that in 2012, the level of spending on local authority housing fell by €56 million, or 17%. Mr. McCarthy should indicate what is the equivalent figure for 2013. I acknowledge that Deputy Deasy referred to this but I seek the number of units that...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: How many of those units were new builds?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: There were 460 new builds in 2013 and the level of funding that was spent in that year fell by €56 million from 2012. What was it in 2013?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: How many local authorities are currently under the Department's jurisdiction?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: It is an average of approximately 14 units per local authority.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: What had it been in 2012?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: It has fallen by a further €34 million, or 30%, whereas in the previous year it had fallen by 17%. The fact is that between 2012 and 2013, the level of funding fell by €90 million, which is greater than the actual expenditure of €83 million in 2013. Am I correct in stating that the new build for 2013 by the local authorities was 460 units in total? If there are 31...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Why is this figure is so low? It seems incredible. I can only give the Secretary General my perspective as a public representative. I am a Deputy for Limerick city where housing is an enormous issue. I, no doubt like any other Deputy, note the number of people coming to their public representatives. How did our building programme get to the point where we were only building an average 14...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: The more important question is whether Mr. McCarthy recognises the Deputy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Before we begin, I remind members and witnesses to ensure their mobile telephones are switched off as interference from mobiles affects the sound quality and transmission of the meeting. I wish to advise witnesses that they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I also welcome Dr. Cecil Beamish and Mr. Peter Meany from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine; Dr. Eibhlin Doyle, principal geologist, Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and Mr. Tom Heffernan, Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. I now invite the Comptroller and Auditor General to introduce his report and the relevant appropriation accounts.

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