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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: When does the CRC expect to be in that position?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: The CRC does outstanding work. The abiding thing to remember is that the work done by the staff and the service users continues. Outstanding work was done by Hamilton Goulding's mother to establish the CRC. Clearly, on reflection, there was serious remiss in terms of the use of the funding collected in order to be used for front-line services. That funding was used, in my view, for a use...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: In his role as CEO he imposed FEMPI cuts across the board, but only for half his own income, despite what the HSE said he should do. I contend that at that time the board had a fiduciary duty to seek legal advice. What appears to have happened, and these things do happen, is that it became too cosy. It happens over time. Effectively, and this is not a personal issue, Mr. Kiely was judge...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Was he a very dominant figure at the board?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Did he get his own way at the board?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: In hindsight, should the board have sought independent advice when it was arranging his settlement package?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: With regard to the medical devices company, and this is not a criticism of the report, but Ms McGuinness in her opening statement omitted to make reference to it in related undertakings and was not aware of the funds being accumulated by the Friends and Supporters of the CRC. The HSE is involved in capital projects with the CRC; they are funded out of Friends and Supporters of the CRC funds....

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: That is not the point. If I am providing revenue funding for the operational costs of a business, the first thing I will ask is, "How did you fund it? Where did the funding come from?"

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: For the ordinary person looking at this, it would strike them as unusual, perhaps incredible, that the HSE would not have been aware of a related company having funds of €12 million which were funding capital projects for which the HSE was funding the operational costs.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Who would not have been aware? The HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I am looking at it now with the report. Ms McGuinness has stated the HSE was not aware of the funds in the Friends and Supporters of the CRC.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I wish to conclude with the medical devices. Mr. Cregan said in page 58 of his report with regard to repayment of €550,000 in 2013, that the Friends and Supporters of the CRC made a payment of €550,000 in 2013 to CRC on behalf of CRC Medical Devices "on foot of this undertaking", and that this amount was in settlement of all funds advanced to the CRC Medical Devices by CRC....

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Did the CRC, the main company, provide the medical devices company, which was a private operation, with €550,000?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Does Mr. Cregan not find that a little unorthodox?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Does Mr. Cregan know at this point what loss will be incurred by the overall group for the medical devices company?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I have a question for Mr. Timmins in light of what he has seen regarding the settlement that was paid. What does the board intend to do with the payment or settlement that was out of line with the HSE guidelines? What does it intend to do with the medical devices company?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: With due respect, the money raised by friends and supporters was for capital projects.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Of that, €750,000 was used for a settlement. With the benefit of hindsight and considering the e-mails between Mr. Goulding and Mr. Kiely. I want to take away the personalities from those documents, and to put it in lay terms, it seems Mr. Kiely was able to come up with his own dowry without having to provide for it. Should Mr. Kiely have come up with his own package or should the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I want Mr. Goulding to deal specifically with the issue of Mr. Kiely effectively coming up with his own dowry. Why did the CRC not bring in an independent party to adjudicate on his package. It appears Mr. Goulding sent an e-mail indicating that it would be extremely important that the board would sign off on the package, and that the board rubber-stamped it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Did the board at the time seek legal counsel advice at any stage about Mr. Kiely's entitlement to retain that level of salary and get that type of remuneration package?

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