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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: What number of exchanges took place with the Commission and the Department over a long number of years and from 2013 to now?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: Did the engagements run to hundreds or dozens?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: If we go back to 2013, there would have been concerns about 80 locations. The Secretary General is telling me we may have satisfied the Commission about half of those locations. It is still not satisfied because this is going to court.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: What have we not done? What has the Department and Irish Water not done to satisfy compliance? Is it about funding?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: It is about underinvestment in wastewater services. I imagine there would be concerns about pollution-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: -----and non-compliance with all those measures. Has the Department sought legal advice relating to non-compliance?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: I would have thought it would be advice from the Attorney General.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: Was it her advice that we should be compliant?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: We have to be compliant.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: Legally, we must be compliant. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: From 2013 up to now, we have accepted we are not in compliance. We are now facing court proceedings. Really, we do not have a leg to stand on legally if we are obliged to be in compliance and we are not. What would the legal advice have been other than to say we should be compliant?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: Has the Department done the following analysis, as I hope it would have done? Has it a cost on what would need to happen for us to be compliant? If that has been done, has it been juxtaposed with possible fines? Has the Department any idea what possible fines we face and if there has been any risk analysis of the cost of the fines that might come down the track if we are not compliant?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: That runs to 2021.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: Is Mr. McCarthy saying he is satisfied that the funding up to 2021 will bring us into compliance with the directive?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: Is it sufficiently funded to 2021 to meet compliance with the directive? It is either "Yes" or "No". It is either funded to meet the directive's requirements or not.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. McCarthy is telling me it is funded to 2021. I am trying to establish whether the funding is there.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: Is Mr. McCarthy satisfied we can avoid fines?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: If Mr. McCarthy is the Accounting Officer and the State is in the dock for non-compliance and we are facing fines, I would be a bit concerned that the Department is not sufficiently robust in the position that we are not facing fines. Mr. McCarthy is saying we have at least identified the cost and we have a plan to fund up to 2021. It is a matter for each budget that the funding will be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: Could I paint a scenario? If we end up in court - and we will - and there are fines, Mr. McCarthy will have to account for those fines. I will be asking a different set of questions as to why we have faced those fines.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

David Cullinane: We will have to see how it unfolds.

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