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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It may well be something for year-end. I do not want to be imposing more work on the secretariat but this has come up over and over again with different organisations. We need to get almost a Committee of Public Accounts equivalent of StubbsGazetteat the end of the year to note the people. It is beyond funny at this stage. It is administratively very heavy on this side and I expect that...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Every time somebody comes in with whom we find this pattern, can we set the relevant matters aside and put them together with the others to show that there is an issue and that there will be consequences for people if it continues?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I wish to raise a couple of things. I have not gone completely through Mr. Barrett's document. However, I share the points that have been raised. There are certainly things in regard to issues that cannot be included because they have not been tested, and that is very fair. However, I found some of the suggestions really helpful. They will be helpful in finalising the report. We gave...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, it was yesterday, for material to be sent to us. If we are going to set a date but it comes in subsequently, do we discount it? What will be our approach?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: So it is not a firm deadline. The other thing is that a letter would have gone to the Central Bank about the credit union. I am presuming it did go. I had understood that it was being sent more than a week ago. It strikes me as strange that we would not have received even an acknowledgement at this stage.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I presume that when the Commissioner comes before the committee, a substantial amount of the report will be done. In fact the CSO has suspended some of its statistics in respect of road traffic offences.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I acknowledge that but this is pretty serious stuff. I am conscious that the August bank holiday weekend is a great weekend to bury things. People do not pay a great deal of attention or the level of attention they should to things. One sees that all the time with bad announcements. Will we be able to question the Commissioner, when she comes before the committee, on what is already...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Good morning. The delegates are very welcome. I want to start with the Government debt. In 2014, it was €203 billion. By 2015, it was €201 billion. The debt-GDP ratio dropped by 120% to 79%. Am I right on that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: That is the year in which there was quite a discussion about leprechaun economics. Mr. Moran told us a small number of large multinationals located some of their activities here. Those were not big job announcements. Were the companies already here? Were they new companies? Do we know who they were?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Can the explanation be very short because I have 20 minutes in total?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: In terms of hard cash, we owed €201 billion in 2015.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It had not changed much in a year so it was not that we paid off debt or got a debt write-off.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It was purely in regard to this activity. This shows exposure because if it can move in and make that change it can equally move out and make the opposite change. Therefore, there is real exposure. Is it true that Ireland's debt is the second highest in the world per capita?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I thank Mr. McCarthy. With regard to aspects of that debt, I want to strip the matter back a little. How is the turning of the promissory notes into sovereign debt captured? I got a reply to a parliamentary question referring to the acceleration of the paying down of the debt. A minimum amount was to be paid off. I do not know the exact terminology. The eight floating rate notes had a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I can understand the logic if one accepts this is our debt. Some of us have a real problem with that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: There was a commitment – it was called a game-changer – regarding retroactive recapitalisation. This would be the area it would fall into. Has that been eliminated as any kind of a prospect at this stage?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The Department, headed by the Minister, has not done anything actively with the European institutions to change that. Is that Ms Nolan's understanding at this stage?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The opening statement referred to competitiveness. IFAC will be advising on the fiscal approach and what fiscal space there is, to use the terminology. One of the big measurements that seems to come into play in relation to competitiveness is wage inflation, but some of the big multinationals on which we are so dependent - we just heard that - are highlighting a whole other issue, namely,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, but if there is such a big gap, the intervention of building becomes a very real issue for the Department of Finance.

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