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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: But are you surprised then that your CEO, Mr. Goggin, lobbied to have dated subordinated debt included in the guarantee that night?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: But, Mr. Boucher-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Yes. But just to be clear, Mr. Goggin and Mr. Burrows were in Government Buildings. You were back at HQ with others and there was contact over the course of the evening by teleconference call. He was in Government Buildings, requesting that dated subordinated debt be included in the guarantee. You were in HQ and you were opposed to the inclusion of dated subordinated debt. Was this issue...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Was it a mistake, in hindsight? Could the bank have achieved greater burden sharing and improved its capital position further by imposing losses-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: -----on subordinated bondholders?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Which could potentially have saved the taxpayers' money.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Sure, yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: But, just to clarify, there was no decision made at corporate level by Bank of Ireland, going into those crisis meetings, that the bank was in favour of including subordinated debt?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Just-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. Just to clarify, Mr. Goggin's rationale when he was asked about this was: The reason that we suggested that junior dated should be included was that we were concerned about the crossover between junior dated [...] and senior bondholders, senior creditors. We were also concerned that that very same population, it was a crossover to the sovereign. That was his logic.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: But was there greater logic, from the bank's point of view, not to have them included?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Mr. Boucher, you're the most senior bank executive in Ireland to have survived the banking crisis. What makes you different from all the rest?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Thank you.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Are you asking is it a legal entity?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Boucher, just under the heading of counterfactuals, which you mentioned a while ago, if Anglo had been allowed to fail and in the absence of a bank guarantee, would Bank of Ireland have survived?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (6 May 2015)

Michael McGrath: Yes.

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