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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: -----until the vote is called. We do not know what votes will be called, and our spokespersons will be the ones leading the debate. Some of us might be going to abstain, some might be going to vote for an amendment and some to vote against. There are no arrangements in place for pairing through the Committee of Public Accounts or notified to the Whips.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Is the Deputy in a position to notify his party's Whip if there is a vote?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: It would be awful to break up the meeting on two or three occasions. If there are three or four, one from the Government side can notify the Whip that we are going to be here. I am conscious of the fact that other members, who may be voting in another direction, may also be here. I think we can send messages in respect of an informal arrangement. It would be dreadful if we had to break up...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Before calling the speakers, I note they have indicated in the following sequence: Deputies Connolly; MacSharry; Cullinane; Kelly; Catherine Murphy; McDonald and Madigan. The first speaker will have 20 minutes, the second speaker 15 minutes and every other speaker has ten minutes. I will be keeping tightly to that timescale in order that everybody has an opportunity to get in. There will...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Is he satisfied that Mr. Kelly said that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. Kelly give details of the offshore bank accounts to which he referred in his meeting with Superintendent McCabe?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Kelly is stating he has no evidence of any offshore bank accounts held by the college.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Kelly found no evidence.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Kelly is quoted as saying he believed the college had offshore accounts.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Kelly inquired about the matter.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am raising this in the interest of the force because it has been widely reported in the media that there were offshore accounts. As far as I can attest, this letter appears to be from where the reference came. If Mr. Kelly is satisfied there are no offshore accounts, I would like him to confirm that because before the witnesses' arrival today, many people were of the view, as a result of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. Culhane satisfied that there are no offshore bank accounts?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: I want to put that on record because people were rightly concerned about that issue. There are no offshore accounts and I would like to place that on record as others will ask questions about it during the course of the meeting. Does Mr. Culhane accept the interim audit report?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is accepted by the Garda. In the second last paragraph of his letter to Mr. Kelly, Mr. Culhane states: "You have effectively set yourself up as "judge, jury and executioner" by your refusal to amend your report to reflect the additional correcting information given to you." Is that a fair comment? Would Mr. Culhane say that today? Does he still believe that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: We will come back to Mr. Culhane in the course of the meeting. When he received the draft of the report in September he objected to many of the recommendations being included in the report. We received the responses he gave in which he objected to many of the recommendations being included. At that point, he said that legal advice would be required before the recommendations should be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: I did not ask about the implementation of the recommendations. The opening statement refers to the fact that legal issues remain to be resolved. Mr. Culhane seemed concerned about even including some of those recommendations in the report itself.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am reading the document, Interim Audit Report - Financial Procedures in the Garda College Templemore, from September. We have a copy of this report in relation to the draft recommendations. In relation to recommendation No. 8, Mr. Culhane wrote: "Until the legal position is resolved, it is not possible to implement this." Mr. Culhane has no problem with the recommendation being in the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: I wanted to clear up the issue of the offshore accounts in particular. While it is a small point, it is one that people latch on to. There are no offshore accounts and I do not want that matter to be hanging over the rest of the meeting. Deputy Catherine Connolly has 20 minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Barrett might-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: To which letter is Mr. Barrett referring?

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