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Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: If they do not mind.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: My apologies about that. It is just that I am in on questions with the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. First of all, I thank the witnesses for being here this morning and for the information they have given. On the contract and the inflation clause in it, under the contract there is building inflation. What additional cost has occurred as a...

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: That is purely, not as regards additional claims-----

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: -----but only the inflationary element of it.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: Inflation has changed quite dramatically over the past 12 months. Is there an estimate as to what the additional inflationary costs will be by the time we get to October 2024?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: What of additional items that the builders are claiming, say, for argument's sake, they say the specifications did not include a particular item and the cost of that additional item is €1 million but, because of inflation, it will now cost €1.050 million?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: Because the increased building costs now have gone beyond the completion date, is Mr. Gunning saying that the development board is entitled to defend any inflationary cost claims that are being made?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: I accept that.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: I accept that.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: The additional cost because of building inflation is €55 million but Mr. Gunning does not believe that they are entitled to validly claim for inflation costs going forward.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: In contracts, there is a penalty clause because of delays by builders. What is the story on the penalty clauses that are in place and can they be used as a bargaining tool in relation to new claims being made by the builder?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: Do those sanctions put the board in a bargaining position in dealing with the additional claims being made?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: I fully accept Mr. Gunning does not want to declare-----

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: Deputy Munster asked earlier about possible delays as a result of claims being made. The contractor has no right to delay the opening of the hospital once it is substantially completed.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: I want to clarify that because it was a bit unclear when Mr. Gunning replied. If I buy a house and do not pay the builder for additional work, he can refuse to close the sale. This situation is not the same.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: It was outlined already that the board is trying to fast-track some of the checking processes. The builder cannot prevent the hospital from putting in place cross-checking of equipment, etc., and the whole system inside there.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: So the builders cannot interfere.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: I will touch on the computerisation issue. Some maternity hospitals have put in place a computerised system. What is the link between the maternity hospitals and the computer system the witnesses are doing? Will there be a connection between them?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: I understand at one stage we had something like 1,700 different computer systems in the HSE and one would not talk to the other. I am wondering are we sure we can get all of this in order.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Colm Burke: Where are we with computerisation in the existing children's hospitals in terms of it being transferred over? We are talking about a huge transfer of staff, patients and information.

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