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Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Does that person have a shareholding in any spin-out companies?

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Dr. Browne does not know.

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: If the vice president had a shareholding in multiple companies, would that surprise Dr. Browne?

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Why would that surprise him?

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Why would it be very difficult?

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: If the institution's head of research was a shareholder in four spin-out companies, would that be of concern?

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: If Dr. Browne did know?

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: The commercialisation and technology transfer policy of one institute refers to a commercialisation committee. The commercialisation committee members include the head of research and innovation, the financial controller and a third person. The policy holds that members of the commercialisation committee who are or who could reasonably be perceived to be in a conflict of interest situation...

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: It goes on to say that any individual who is related to, reports to or is a business partner of someone who would be considered to have a conflict of interest would also have a conflict of interest. Let us say we have a situation - we do not know if it is the case in Dr. Browne's institution - where the head of research was a shareholder in three or four spin-out companies. Further, the...

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: I am asking about the process, not any individual-----

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Dr. Browne would understand-----

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: I am not suggesting but Dr. Browne is being evasive. He is answering the questions very fairly, with respect. I am trying to be fair to the individuals involved. I want to make sure that in every single higher education institution in this State we have robust systems in place to protect that institution.

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: I also want to make sure that, as far as possible, we have an arms length separation between people who have executive, governance and management roles and people who are in the innovation space, in terms of spin-outs and commercialising them for personal gain and for the gain of others. Such activity creates jobs and so on but if there is personal gain involved, there is an obvious conflict.

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: It may involve multiple companies and the shareholders in those companies, that is, business partners, may have shareholdings in other companies. If the person involved is the owner of policy and sits on a commercialisation committee-----

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Unacceptable. Dr. Browne would say that is unacceptable-----

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: It would be unacceptable, in Dr. Browne's view-----

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Can Dr. Browne understand my concern if what I described was actually the case? What I have described would be a matrix of conflicts of interest. It would almost be impossible to disentangle oneself from up to a dozen companies in which one or one's business partners had a share holding. How could one effectively do one's job in the first instance? Would the job of head of research and...

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: It is a very well paid job. It would also be a very demanding job.

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: One's attention should be 100% on the job for which one is getting paid.

Public Accounts Committee: National University of Ireland Galway: Financial Statement 2013-2014 (6 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Before we move off this issue, I wish to put something to Mr. Love. We had a discussion earlier about an independent or external examination or review of one institute. We have just heard from another higher education president who has given his view on the matter. He used the word "unacceptable". I have been raising very similar concerns and I need to know before I leave here today that...

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