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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I was confused about the funding system.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Does the report clearly distinguish the money that went through the system that came from the Vote and the extra income that was generated from the other activities Mr. Nugent mentioned?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Dunne would know this from his previous experience. Is it possible for the internal audit function to specify, in the summaries in this report on the income that went through each year, which income was based on the stipend, the voted amount, and which was the additional surplus income?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: It came from the Vote.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I would like to know the proportion. Was it 70%, 80%, 90%?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. Nugent ask somebody to come back to the committee with a note?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is okay. Mr. Nugent will give us a note on the breakdown of the rest of the finances.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: In fairness to Mr. Cyril Dunne, we are not here to talk about his personal career outside of the Garda Síochána. He is not obliged to answer personal questions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Excuse me, but we can put that up on the screen. You do not need to read it as we all have it before us. It will be on the screen shortly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: To be fair to the witness, that is an individual member's conclusion. It is not a conclusion of the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: A witness should be conscious of that when a member says "I disagree", "I reject" or "I find the statement unbelievable". I wish to help the witnesses. They will be the views of individual members. The full committee will consider all of this shortly when it is doing its report, but personal views are not necessarily the views of the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am not disagreeing with his view.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: We will move on to Deputy Connolly. Deputy Kelly will get another opportunity.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Who is Mr. Gay Harris?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I will call the officials from the Department of Justice and Equality next. We have received the letter from Mr. Culhane and have the response from Mr. Nugent about the draft audit report. Is it possible to get copies of the letters sent to Mr. Kelly when he sent out the draft report for comments?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am concerned that we are now aware that Mr. Dunne received two extracts. At a previous meeting we saw the full reply from Mr. Culhane on the draft audit report. Unless there is more information of equal or less significance, we do not have the full picture on the responses to the report. Were others involved? That information would help to identify-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: We are requesting the information and do not mind who passes it on. Mr. Nugent can appreciate that we are now aware of two responses to the internal audit report. We are in possession of some information and do not know whether it is complete or partial. We need the full picture on the responses to the internal audit report. It would be unfair of us to draw a conclusion if there are other...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: While we are on that point, this might be a little difficult, but there has been some confusion today about the extent of the discussion at the audit committee meeting on 30 September about how extensive the briefing was. Mr. Howard has indicated that it was a short briefing, but the minutes indicate to me that there was quite an extensive discussion.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes. The minutes do not stack up. If the briefing was very brief, the garda who is the secretary did tremendous work in the set of minutes produced. They are so precise that great notes must have been taken or the person must have been given a document. Was any document presented? From what did the garda prepare the minutes? Would they have had contemporaneous notes? They were very...

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