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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: It was approved at the March meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: The committee only meets once per quarter, so if it was not approved in December, it was approved in March.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: In order that we have a feel for what happens in the audit committee, approximately how many reports would be done in a year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: This was only one of a number of reports done that year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: By way of information to be obtained, whether through the finance or audit section, in regard to the report, what we need is more information on the issue than what is in this document. The main chart, which is contained on page 8 of the internal report, is the only financial summary in the report. The final sentence on page 7 of the internal audit report states that the total expenditure...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: The figures for 2016 relate to a three-month period. According to the chart, there was a base line cost of €11 million per annum even though there was no training going on in the college.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Explain.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is stated at the bottom of the page that of the €112 million over that period, 80% or €90 million related to salary costs and the remaining 20% to non-pay costs. There is a breakdown of those costs on the next page. As I said, it is important the committee has the information it needs. It is clear now that €112 million was the voted expenditure through the college...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: As I said, I do not have a complete picture of what happened. There is a list of expenditure headings on page 9 but no information on the total income and no breakdown of the income between the voted income, which we know about, and other income. Does Mr. Nugent understand what I am looking for?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: We have only half of the picture. We need a clear picture of the overall situation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: On page 11 of the report, paragraph 1 states that the weekly capitation grant fee was calculated for the provision of food and lodgings, including laundry for each student in the college. This was calculated in the late 1980s and it has been indexed linked since then. The capitation grant per student in the period audited was €77.92 per student per week. This did not change from...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Nugent will understand because we had a big discussion on this capitation fee, and now we realise it is not even 3% of what went through.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Nugent mentioned the cash earlier-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Nugent will try to get that to us as soon as possible next week to give us a complete picture because we do not have it from this.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Which section?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Fine. I am moving on. Ms Barry from the Department of Justice and Equality indicated she wanted to come in.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. Dunne okay with that correction of the date?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: The system was set up with the Secretary General of the Department was the Accounting Officer. The Accounting Officer only moved to-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am confirming that. The system was set up under the Department when the-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I agree they knew because they set it up. We are now only hearing about the funding model change in 2014. Why did that change happen? That must have affected the Vote. People must have felt they had to move on. They must have aware of some of these issues at that stage if they changed the structure of the funding model, which would have had an impact on the Vote.

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