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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: There are approximately 100 widely-held IREFs in total. Approximately four or five funds have CGT exemption and they are widely held with institutional investors such as pension funds.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: Four or five of the 100 funds.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: Four or five currently have CGT exemption. We do not know the number of funds that will potentially benefit from the extra year.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: It is expected that the same four or five funds will benefit by 1 January 2019.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: The 100 IREFs will have €15 billion to €16 billion in total assets.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: The expectation is that will be approximately €3 billion to €4 billion.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: Yes. However, those are institutional-type widely held funds such as pension funds and so on. Pension funds are exempt from withholding tax anyway.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: No, we are. These are institutional investors. I want to say to Deputy Boyd Barrett that it is very easy to look back several years later and say we knew the market had bottomed out at that stage. Any members who were on the finance committee at that time, as some of those present were, know that we did not know the market was not going to continue falling. The Deputy said it could only...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: The market could have continued to fall. It was the individuals who came in and invested at that stage who were taking a risk. Nobody knew the market was going to stabilise at a certain period-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: There are many international examples of investors going in and the market continuing to fall. It is easy to look back and say we knew that was the bottom of the slump but we did not know that at the time.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: A note will be prepared for members in respect of the number of funds-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: I do not know if "vulture fund" is the correct term. I do not know if that is an academic term or what it is. It is used by some as a disapproving term for private equity funds who came in and invested at a time when we needed investment. The Chairman should not forget that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: Nor am I forgetting that. However, getting caught up in the term-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: We will get that information for the Chairman.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: We will provide what information we can. If Revenue is not allowed to provide that information because the matter is commercially sensitive, I cannot provide it to the Chairman or the committee members because it will not be given to me. The majority of the funds have traded in this country for decades, not a few years.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: I missed what the Deputy said.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: I will try to answer all the questions that have been asked. If I miss out on some of them-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: I will try to respond to each question. If I leave something out, I am sure I will have an opportunity to come back in again. We do not have exact figures for the withholding tax. We will not have those figures until next summer. That is just the way things are.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: No, we do not have estimates. Estimates are guesses.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: I just want to step back a little bit. There are approximately 100 IREFs, four or five of which are widely-held funds, or pension funds, in effect. Four or five funds have had the benefit of not paying the 20% withholding tax. The same funds will have that benefit over the next 12 months up to January 2019. It is important to note that if they are pension funds, they are exempt in any...

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