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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I know. The Deputy is still well over his time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: We are not going to draw conclusions. The witness was asked a question and that was Deputy Kelly's last question. I will get back to the Deputy Cullinane before we suspend for the break.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am moving on. This is the Deputy's last question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: To which document is the Deputy referring?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I call Deputy Catherine Connolly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I have a question for Mr. Dunne and Mr. Nugent. Both of them will be able to help me with this one and it will also be of interest to the Comptroller and Auditor General. When the audit was being completed for 2015 there was an amendment made in September to the statement of internal financial control. This was in September-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Do the witnesses recall that? September 2016 for the year end-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Dunne was very aware of the issues in the summer of 2015, in June, July, August and September. Those facts that existed in 2015 had an impact on what had been happening with the internal financial control reporting for 2014. Given that it was considered necessary in September 2016 to make an amendment on the statement of internal financial control by the Commissioner for the year 2015,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Okay. Mr. Dunne has read out the detailed presentation that he made to the internal audit committee in September 2015.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is detailed. Mr. Dunne is fully aware of it and thus able to prepare this report for the internal audit committee. Somebody else said that it is only a small report but according to Mr. Dunne it is quite extensive. That related to events that had been happening prior to him coming to the college.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: At which point over the summer of 2015, when Mr. Dunne was preparing this, the audit was not yet signed off for the previous year. On the one hand, he considered this to be very serious and he gave a detailed report to his internal audit committee and subsequently required an amendment to the statement of financial control. Why did he not come to that conclusion when he came across this...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Who dealt with that? Was that the director of finance?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Would he have been aware of these concerns at that stage?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I will ask the Comptroller and Auditor General. Given that the change happened when he was completing his 2016 audit, it is clear to me that before the audit from the previous year was completed the substance of this issue was well-known within the ranks of the Garda. Was he made aware of this at that early stage?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: And should the Comptroller and Auditor General's office have been made aware, in the light of what is now known?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: When the Comptroller and Auditor General became aware of this in his audit last year, he insisted that a correction be made to the statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Given that this information was in the possession of the senior people involved a year earlier, even if they had not done their internal audit report at that stage, what is Mr. McCarthy's view of his not being notified of this a year earlier?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: From the Comptroller and Auditor General's point of view, is there any mechanism where the audited account that he signed can be dealt with? We are now reaching agreement that the 2014 accounts which were signed off towards the end of 2015 when all this was very much on the Comptroller and Auditor General's agenda, did not include this. Is there anything that can be done about it? We can...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: We cannot change the report.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: It would be up to the Committee of Public Accounts to highlight that issue if we are making a report. Okay. I call Deputy McDonald.

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