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Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: It looks bad and it chimes with what they told me, namely, that they are not treated as proper employees.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: There was a time when they were not even paid the minimum wage when it was introduced.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I remember a time when they were being paid €2 or €3 an hour.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: They feel there is a legacy issue. I know those who came on got the option of making a contribution to bring their pensions up to speed. If one was being paid a fraction of the minimum wage when it was introduced, one was in no position to do so. Even though they worked as home helps, they have only got pension contributions since then. Very few of them could afford to buy the extra...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: There is a history to it and that history is not good.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I will ask the Department to explain why it is desirable for home helps to be listed outside the rest of the staffing figures.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Even if they are included, they should not be just a footnote at the end of the total number of employees. On page 9, the total staff number is given as 107,000. They are excluded from the chart on page 9. They are not even included in the early part of the accounts. Mr. Mulvany understands what I am saying. I am sorry, I am covering a few points here. The reason I linked that to the...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: The witnesses need to say that because there is a certain impression out there. I hear much about agency staffing costs, in terms of hospitals and so on. I have heard this from the home helps. They say that they are being shoved aside and that agency staff are being brought in to do the home help. That does happen. One hears about the costs to hospitals. I am sure it is said at every...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Does Mr. Mulvany get the point? I am supporting-----

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: I will return to page 173. I am sorry to go around the houses but I am seeking something on which I will compliment the HSE. The 2016 financial statements are clear, audited and submitted complete to the PAC within six months of the year end. No other organisation in the State is in that position. Organisations come here with financial statements that are a year or two out of date. As...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Once we get finished, it would be my hope that we would not have to see each other, at least, in this capacity-----

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: -----at the Committee of Public Accounts. If we have the HSE's 2016 accounts done, I would hope, come the autumn, we will have somebody else to deal with.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: We can cope without it. It does not mean the HSE will not be getting-----

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes. It does not mean the HSE will not get plenty of questions from us, as members in the interim. The HSE is involved in a legal dispute with the drug importing companies. Where are we on that? I know the HSE cannot quantify it. What can Mr. O'Brien say about that? It is a legal dispute and the HSE will not disclose it. Will Mr. O'Brien just tell us what that topic is? Mr. O'Brien...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. O'Brien explain that to us?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Mulvany is saying the proprietary supplier here feels he or she has a closed shop and is-----

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Who is trying to block whom? That is what I am trying to establish.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: Can the HSE send us a note to explain the issue without complicating its legal position, and the same with the medical consultants, just so that we are aware of the issue?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statements 2015 and 2016
Clarification of Matters Relating to Meeting of 2 February 2016
(15 Jun 2017)

Seán Fleming: All I can say is I am none the wiser. Okay, it is a contingent issue.

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