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Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: There was a dire staff shortage that led to pressures on staff.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Did that pressure impact on interaction between survivors and staff in terms of the quality or the professionalism of the service?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: That would be an understatement.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: He made it earlier when the Chairman was absent. I was in the Chair.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Musical chairs. I would like to acknowledge Mr. O'Callaghan's honesty and the fact that he has put that on the record. That is important because we all have received correspondence from survivors who have raised concerns about the level of service they received, the quality of the service, and their interaction with the organisation. There is some acknowledgement that there were problems,...

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: But Ms Higgins's chairman did and he talked about the treatment of people. I asked him to elaborate.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Not necessarily. He elaborated a little more than that. If the chairman is saying it was "an appalling service" but the chief executive officer does not agree, that troubles me. Why is there a conflict in this regard?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: I would rather that Ms Higgins did not defend anything; I would rather that she would be honest with us when questions are put if she-----

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: By extension, that is not a good service.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Because if someone is waiting too long, it cannot be described as a good service.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Would Mr. Ó Foghlú describe the service as "an appalling service"?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: I am sorry.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: I will not be unfair to anybody. I heard exactly what Mr. O'Callaghan said and I understand the context.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: I understand the context in which Mr. O'Callaghan said this but from its conception until now at some point he said the service was "appalling". I understand the context in which he said that and the time to which he referred. I acknowledge that but I am putting the same question to Mr. Ó Foghlú.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Given the pressures on staffing levels, the high volume of requests, the difficulty in processing all the information, the tension with the survivors who were trying to access services as quickly as possible, and the organisation not being able to deliver on its mandate, would that have led to an adversarial system?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Who was impatient?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: "Frustrated" would perhaps be a more appropriate word.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay. I want to draw Ms Higgins's attention to two areas. She spoke about consultancy firms that were appointed to do certain jobs of work. Mazars was one of them and Capita was the other.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay. How much did Mazars-----

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: An organisational review, which was essentially to tell Ms Higgins how to do her job. Would that be a fair assessment?

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