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Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: A commissioning process usually relates to organisations or------

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I appreciate the Deputy's questions. I was trying to describe the transition to a new way of doing that. The Deputy is raising more questions in the same territory. What might be most useful would be for Tusla to present to the committee on its general approach to commissioning. The Deputy could raise these questions in that context. I am happy to revert directly to the Deputy following...

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: We can do both or one or the other. There is a little questioning even here.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: It is not my understanding that there is a national approach to the tendering or commissioning process for services in Cork. I have not heard of that approach before. That is not to say that it does not happen for certain types of services. What I am saying is-----

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I know that. I have just said that this is not my understanding. I have also said-----

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: As the Deputy has said, we will come back to it. There are two very different processes here. Commissioning is carried out for wider services, not for each individual. It also sounds as though the Deputy has an individual query.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: The family resource centre programme accounts for €1.5 million and domestic, sexual and gender-based violence services account for a further €1.5 million.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: That is the Deputy's second set of questions. Her first questions pertained to the capital programme. In 2019, the capital provision of €17.19 million will be focused on completing the roll-out of the national childcare information system; the roll-out of the first phase of Tusla's ICT strategy; and commencing refurbishments of some front-line service facilities and staff...

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: The total number of open cases in Tusla assessed as in need of a social work service in 2018 was 24,891. It is expected to be 25,696 in 2019. Is that the specific detail for which the Deputy asked?

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I will, of course.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I thank the Deputy for the question and know exactly what she means. She and I have both met the representative bodies for family resource centres. It is particularly because of having listened to them that I have focused investment on existing family resource centres as distinct from adding new ones, as we did last year. The representative bodies and individual family resource centres...

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: It is being done by meeting those involved in individual family resource centres.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I will come back to that question after answering the Deputy's first question on legal costs. In 2018 legal costs were €28.3 million.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I do not think I have that information to hand. Certainly, we can get a breakdown of the figure for the Deputy.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: It is. It includes costs for guardians ad litem.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: The figure was approximately €7 million for guardiansad litem, which leaves approximately €21.3 million.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: By the end of 2018, third party counsel fees under the heading of childcare were €599,000. Third party solicitors fees under the same heading were €657,000. The figure for contracted legal services was €11.542 million.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: In other words, it is for legal services outside Tusla, not its own internal resources.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: Yes. Would the committee like me to continue? I have a sheet that I can provide for it which includes the breakdown.

Select Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Estimates for Public Service 2019
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs (Revised)
(6 Mar 2019)

Katherine Zappone: The Deputy was focusing, in particular, on retrospective cases. Work on such cases is ongoing and being monitored by the expert assurance group which was established as a result of HIQA's statutory investigation. I understand the team is working in Dublin north where training is being provided and that the policy will be rolled out nationally. Additional principal social workers will be...

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