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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Mr. Carville is saying it will go beyond 25%. Is there a monetary value in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: What is the monetary value in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I still have a very serious problem with unsecured creditors being paid by a bank that was fully bailed out and was not even a high street bank.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It would be useful to receive a table. Things are being conflated.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: A couple of pages with high-level information would be helpful.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The figure for subordinated debt comes in almost at the tail end. Is anything likely to be paid on it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I find it objectionable that unsecured or subordinated debt would be repaid. They have been accelerating the sale of the floating rate bonds and are ahead of schedule because of interest rates and the NTMA. We never had the game changer which was related to the promissory notes. Have we fully accepted this and has there been any challenge to it? Is there any follow-up to the commitments...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I can accept that things have changed with AIB and Bank of Ireland, in particular, but IBRC and Irish Nationwide Building Society were a different proposition. Most of us understood the promissory notes represented money that was being extinguished. That was the word used when some of us met the Governor of the Central Bank. I am reminded that Ashoka Mody, one of the people involved on the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: With others, I met Mr. Philip Lane and addressed this issue with him. When we asked him if it would be impossible to address the issue, he said it would be difficult but that it could happen at a political level. Would Mr. Dorgan agree?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I am asking about this aspect of retrospective recapitalisation, with specific reference to Anglo Irish bank.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It is a political and a policy matter, rather than one for the Department of Finance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I will come back with a couple of other matters.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Not on this side.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: What would be deemed to be a large case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I want to skip through a number of matters. Mr. Carville talked about the net amount in respect of the cost of the bank, stabilisation measures and capitalisation. I assume that the Department did not include the tax forgone that can be set aside for up to 20 years and which was recently in the news. Has the Department calculated what that might have otherwise been?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: There is actually nothing similar to big corporates and the banks in these circumstances given that they would not exist if it were not for money that was put in by the National Pensions Reserve Fund and borrowings for which we are going to pay. Therefore, there is a very big difference and it does not appear that there is a Statute of Limitations, even uniquely on the banks, in respect of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Then we need to change the law.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Mr. Carville referred in his opening statement to the initial public offering, IPO, that is, the €3.4 billion. What is the value of those shares today compared with their value when they were sold?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: That is a sizeable increase. What was the expected increase over that period? I am sure the Department would have done some calculations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It has gone up sizeably since.

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