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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I do not say Mr. Kelly is here. He deleted a vital paragraph based on assurances that action was being taken. Who gave him those assurances?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Who did he get them from?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: That is what I am trying to establish exactly. Mr. Kelly's view now is that those assurances were not worth the paper they were written on. Would that be a fair-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Kelly is brave enough to accept that he made a mistake.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I commend him on that. Does he feel he was duped?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Does he regret that he was duped in that way?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Who does he believe duped him? Perhaps he should name offices rather than individuals.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Does Mr. Kelly agree that the culture of An Garda Síochána up to 2015 was to circle the wagons rather than to accept there was wrongdoing and correct it? Would that be his view as head of internal audit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I will turn to Mr. Barrett. I was trying to establish in my head how all this was eventually unlocked and what was the key that got us to a point where in 2016 we had a report. He may not like me saying this but he deserves tremendous credit for the work he did.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Barrett does not have to accept it but I am saying it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I am not giving him one, but I am acknowledging that this is one of the few instances where this happened. Mr. Barrett prepared a report in 2015 that was to be given to the Comptroller and Auditor General

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: We have gone through this. That was done to be brought to the attention of the audit committee. Was Mr. Barrett disappointed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Does he feel he was also frustrated in-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: At the meeting of 30 September, it was raised under the order of business. A copy of the report was not submitted in advance to the members and there was an oral presentation. Was that the appropriate way to deal with it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Was Mr. Howard head of the committee?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: There is a pattern of a lack of action being taken over a long period and we are going to have to get as much documentation as we can. My final question is for the Commissioner. I have a different world view from her. I see things a little differently because I have listened to every answer she has given. When legislation is put in place, it applies to everybody. I have responsibilities...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: With respect, we need to get more information on almost everything. It seems to me that if this happened in 2014, there must have been an acknowledgement within the corporate entity - either An Garda Síochána or the Garda college - that there were issues that it needed to start addressing by beginning to make payments back to the OPW. I want to know what triggered that. Why did...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I want the Commissioner to answer another question when she comes in. Given that most of the €128,000 that has to be repaid has been spent in areas where it should not have been spent, why is it acceptable for the taxpayer to have to foot the bill and that is the end of it as far as I can see? How can the Commissioner see that as acceptable?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes.

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