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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: That means it will not be given.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I believe Dr. McLoughlin can do so because he negotiated the figure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: No, I will not do so. I am here today as Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts. Dr. McLoughlin must have prepared a request relating to the funding because a Minister will only act on an outline of what he is told is required by the HSE to run its affairs. I will ask a different question. Are the figures of how much was requested and how much was received secrets? How much did Dr....

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: It is not that the question cannot be answered. Dr. McLoughlin simply will not answer it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I understand that because I have been a Member of these Houses since 1997 and have a reasonable idea how the system works, though every Thursday at this committee is an education for me as to how the system does not work. Did Dr. McLoughlin ask the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform for a specific budget in order that the Minister could be informed? How much was requested?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: Dr. McLoughlin can answer but will not.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I am not surprised that Dr. McLoughlin will not answer. What does Mr. O'Brien think of this budget issue? Did Mr O'Brien prepare figures for Dr. McLoughlin in order that he could fight the case on behalf of Mr. O'Brien and ensure sufficient funds were received? Obviously Mr. O'Brien prepared a budget.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: My question does not relate to the decisions of the Government, which I understand. I want to know how the process works and Mr. O'Brien has clarified this matter. It is the case that the HSE prepares a budget plan taking known and unknown factors into account and arrives at a figure as a best estimate of its needs for the year. Mr. O'Brien, in turn, then presents that to Mr. McLoughlin,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. O'Brien. May we publish his statement?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: May we publish Dr. McLoughlin's statement?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I invite Mr. O'Brien to make his statement.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: The agenda for next week's meeting is chapter 7: management of fixed charge notices; chapter 8: management of outsourced safety cameras; the cash balances of the RSA; and the Vote for the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. Is that agreed? Agreed. We are joined by members of the public accounts committee of the Isle of Man. We met them yesterday when we had a discussion about...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I ask witnesses, those in the Visitors Gallery and committee members to ensure their mobile phones are switched off because they interfere with the sound transmission. Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I also welcome Mr. O'Brien from the HSE and ask him to introduce his officials.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I ask the representatives of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to introduce themselves.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I invite the Comptroller and Auditor General to introduce his report and the accounts.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: My apologies, I intended to address that. The Deputy is correct and part of the advice we should seek concerns not just a response to this, but how best to approach changing the Standing Order. That work, in two pieces, needs to be done now.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: That is definitely outside our remit but we will make the Deputy's views known to the committee. I tend to agree with Deputy Ross. We agree on the piece of work to be done and we will ask the clerk to make the appropriate arrangements as soon as possible so we can get the best legal advice independently.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: That is my view.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I do not want to hold it up but we have agreed to move quickly to do so. The committee has raised issues regarding the SIPTU and HSE fund and we need to respond beyond that. If we can move quickly to get legal advice, we can answer that question and then deal with the other question.

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