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Written Answers — Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Departmental Staff (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: 568. To ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine the details of secondments from his Department to the university third level sector over the past two years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22244/22]

Written Answers — Department of Rural and Community Development: Departmental Staff (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: 576. To ask the Minister for Rural and Community Development the details of secondments from his Department to the university third level sector over the past two years; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [22257/22]

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: If there had been no leaks, how would the Secretary General have seen this working out?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: To what extent does Mr. Watt think leaks bounced into different actions?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Does Mr. Watt think leaks bounced the Department into this? Was it reactive?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Mr. Watt referred to positions with regard to the secondments of senior civil servants so he was talking about Secretaries General. There are two Secretaries General who have been seconded. That is by Government agreement on a decision from 2011 and 2021 which says quite clearly that if they have not achieved the 40 years pensionable service or whatever, they will at the end of their term...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: I just want the factual aspect because there is a kind of parallel.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Okay. Much has been made of the open-ended secondment in that this was special treatment, but this is treatment for Secretaries General. The CMO position is assistant Secretary General level, am I correct in saying that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Does Mr Watt think that the spirit of those Government decisions from 2011 and 2021 was designed to include deputy Secretaries General as well as Secretaries General?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: I suppose the point I am getting at is there was a standard operating procedure, which was approved by Government in 2011 and 2021, and it seems to cover what has been maybe mischaracterised as an open-ended secondment. The open-ended secondment, therefore, is actual practice if a Secretary General has reached the end of his or her Secretary General term in advance of retirement. There is a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Would it be Mr. Watt's characterisation that he followed this but it was for a deputy Secretary General, and that was the only difference?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: That is a reverse kind of secondment

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: The open-ended secondment sounds like it was something special for Dr. Holohan but this was not a special arrangement. It applies to Secretaries General whose tenure concludes before their retirement age. It keeps them at their Secretary General salary in the public service or Civil Service or an international institution. It seems, therefore, to be quite a parallel model.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: I will move now to the CMO. It is nice to meet Dr. Holohan face to face. Our meetings up to now have been virtual. Dr. Holohan said he had the support of the Secretaries General of the Department of the Taoiseach and Health and of the Minister. Was it a surprise then when it was suggested that the process be paused? What was Dr. Holohan's feeling around that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Is it retrievable?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Could Dr. Holohan be persuaded to think again?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: It is not a "No".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Okay. That is important. If the Secretary General was to start again and because there is an inquiry into the learnings, what has he learned?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: There was one aspect to the proposal that seemed to imply that the CMO, had it gone through, could also avail of services of work in the private sector. That would have differed from the arrangement for Secretaries General. That may be a question that Dr. Holohan can come back on. In terms of learnings, it has been said that any reasonable person looking at this objectively would have...

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