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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: I have togged out and lined out now so I had better try to play. I will address my first question to Mr. Kavanagh. From what he said a moment ago, I understand the IHRB has a level of accountability to the taxpayer, but is it the same level of accountability as HRI has? The IHRB will get, if I understand correctly, €9.6 million this year. Certainly, €9 million out of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: That is the point. Therefore, is it fair to say there is not the same level of accountability, for example, through the Comptroller and Auditor General to the public?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: I ask Mr. Egan to be brief.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: I am trying to establish whether we have no more entitlement to know the salaries in Mr. Kavanagh's organisation than we have the salaries in Mr. Egan's organisation. What is the position? Is it the same situation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: That suggests to me that we have less access to information because the IHRB is not in the same position as HRI.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: I think the point has been made that nearly €10 million and the bulk of the money of IHRB is coming from the taxpayer through HRI and that people are not in a position to know the salaries involved. That is an interesting and important point. I wish to ask about the Turf Club and the IHRB. The IHRB is an emanation of the Turf Club. It is effectively a self-selecting organisation...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: Yes, but, of course, I am not suggesting I have any evidence that people intervene in favour of their own situations. Perception is everything, however, just as in a court justice is not just to be done but has to be seen to be done. There are examples internationally of regulatory bodies for this industry in which nobody who is involved in owning, breeding or training can have hand, act or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: Okay. Would it be inappropriate for anybody who is in any way involved in selling or trading with horses to have any role in a regulatory body with responsibility for anti-doping? I am not suggesting that they are involved in the executive or the day-to-day business, but am referring to the perception of things and the perception of this being a clean situation. Given that the Irish...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: I see racing every weekend on two channels because I have a family member who is passionate about it. I follow it somewhat vicariously but never unwillingly. From all that I see it is clear to me that racing is a family. In any such family situation there must be a scrupulousness about keeping certain people away from decision-making. The concern is that the IHRB is, effectively, a closed...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: Okay, but I do want to talk about the issues raised by Mr. Bolger.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: Okay. Claims are made by people who have a high reputation, people of long standing in the industry, people who have a completely clean record, and people who say that they have moral certainty, that drug taking is the number one problem. The representatives from IHRB come in here and say that they are frustrated and disappointed by recent allegations. With everything we have heard so far...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: Dr. Hillyer I am sorry to interrupt-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: -----if they were not a thorn in your side-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: -----yet Mr. Egan said he was frustrated and disappointed by the recent allegations.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: Can the witness clarify that-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: -----the IHRB and Mr. Egan are not frustrated and disappointed by the claims that drug taking is the number one problem in horse racing and that we have a problem coming down the tracks? Am I clear that the IHRB is not frustrated and disappointed, and that it has no issue or problem with the statement being made?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: May I ask Dr. Hillyer about what happened in the Zilpaterol case? Could Dr. Hillyer talk to me about the role the IHRB played in that and how it played out, including its consequences?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: I do not have an issue with the findings in the lab. My issue is what happened in Ireland arising out of that case. This case is associated with the withdrawal of certain horses from a race card. What are the consequences? What was the net issue that arose in that case? Was there wrongdoing in that case? Who was to blame for that wrongdoing and what action was taken against whoever was...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: What happened in that case-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Alleged Issues in the Horse Racing Industry: Discussion (8 Jul 2021)

Rónán Mullen: I am sorry Chairman but as Deputy Carthy said earlier, the only reason I am interrupting is because I am conscious of the shortness of time.

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