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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: No, I do not because I am leading a consultation on the matter so it would be wrong of me to have a view of the staff or consultation on which I want to engage everybody else. Of course, the Department and I will make our view known at the end of this process. I said at the very start that I am happy to come back to the committee to engage when we are finished our work on this, but we are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: I will try to answer the Deputy's questions as best I can. If I miss a point, he might remind me. What was the Deputy's first question again?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: It would be wrong to say there is consensus because we are still working through this. There is a general sense, certainly in our Department, that we may be able to strengthen the position in this area. There are two consequences to that. The Deputy is right that one of the consequences involves the director's responsibilities in continuing to trade in such a situation for those 30 days...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: I am sorry. Will the Deputy remind me of the question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: At the time it was put forward, it was probably in respect of the failings of a company. However, that might not necessarily be the way it would be implemented if there is a suggestion that it could have other far-reaching consequences. That is the reason the recommendation has to be teased out. It provides for enhanced redundancy payments over and above the statutory entitlement in the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: It is a liquidation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: I thank the Deputy. I assure him that we are taking it seriously. It is urgent, but it needs very careful consideration because there are far-reaching consequences. As a Department, our job is to get the balance right in this area. The Minister of State, Deputy Robert Troy, and I are committed to this. The Tánaiste is also dealing with the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF. Our...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: There are a couple of issue. The lack of urgency is a matter of the Deputy's opinion. We decided in July or August that we would review this. The programme for Government sets out the commitment to doing so. It is very complicated legislation. Many aspects of the legislation, such as the State's role in making payments, have been negotiated over many years. The latest change to the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: The report was published in 2016. When the authors were here, they told the committee that they dealt with a very specific situation, that they had a narrow terms of reference, and that is what they made their recommendations on. The recommendations were taken on board at the time by various Departments. A decision was made that it was not necessary to implement them as they were. We are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: There are two issues here. The Duffy Cahill report was produced in relation to hypothetical situations, using examples from 2016. The report was published and its work taken on board by various Departments, which decided not to progress the recommendations. In some cases, there was no consensus on them. That is the discussion that we are having here about funds and different ways of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: That is not what I said at all. I said that I am very much committed to strengthening the legislative framework if we can and if it is worthwhile. The consensus is on having a fund because someone has to pay into that fund. That is a discussion on which consensus was reached in 2002 regarding the insolvency fund and so on. The situation with legislation is if the Department can make a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: It was due to go to Cabinet yesterday for extension. I believe it did but I will have to confirm that for the Deputy. That was the proposal. There is general understanding about why we are doing that, namely to save and protect jobs. It might delay some workers vindicating their rights. We believe the payments such as PUP are in place to strengthen their position. We are in the business...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: That is a fair point and I will bear it in mind. The Deputy is correct, but we have to made a decision in the round about what is best in the majority of cases.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: Deputy Shanahan is expressing opinions on what happened in the situation involving Debenhams. I do not have the evidence to say whether he is right or wrong. I cannot answer his question because he is making assumptions. I am not sure he has the evidence to back them up. If he has, it would be very useful to the conversation around that company. I have heard others make similar comments...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: I cannot say it because I have no evidence of it. The courts will decide that, which is what the liquidation process is about. The Duffy Cahill report made recommendations around preventing companies that might engage in that practice but that is not to say the companies we are discussing have engaged in it. That is an opinion. Some Members of this House have made assumptions, rightly or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: On that last point, that is probably where we think the benefit might be regarding having a visible list of agreements that have been reached. Again, they are private agreements reached in private companies. The State does not have an involvement. They are private arrangements in private companies but it would beneficial for all involved - certainly employees and everyone else - if we can...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: I welcome all of the Deputy's suggestions and will take them on board and look through them because, again, we are trying to draw on international experience referenced by others. In respect of employees taking out insurance for redundancy, the State does provide that insurance in terms of statutory redundancy and every other entitlement such as holiday pay and outstanding wages. The State...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: I will say two things. The authors themselves have said the terms of reference were very narrow so I am just quoting what they said. The Senator is disappointed with my statement and that is his opinion. I am engaging in a process in the Department that is not finished; we are in the middle of it. Therefore, it would not be appropriate for me to come in and say that this is what I, or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Implementation of Duffy Cahill Report: Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (25 Nov 2020)

Damien English: We have discussed this in the Dáil a few times. The Taoiseach has referred to it, as has the Tánaiste, myself and others. The Senator assumes that the Duffy Cahill report would be of assistance to the Debenhams workers.

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