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Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions: Legislative Measures (9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I thank the Minister of State. He is correct that we are heading into the autumn season and Hallowe'en festivities. Increasingly every year, that season opens earlier. I heard reports in late August of this year of fireworks being used in my area. The Minister of State outlined the impact that fireworks had on animals, family pets, livestock and so on. They have an impact on other...

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions: Legislative Measures (9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I would welcome that correspondence. I point out the considerable work of Dublin Fire Brigade in trying to dissuade people. I also acknowledge the work of the local authorities, particularly Dublin City Council, in respect of pro-social activity. I encourage anybody in the city to come to either the Finglas Fright Night or the Ballymun Otherworld festival. They are fantastic family-fun...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I thank our witnesses for being here today. We thank them for the good work they do. Unfortunately, in these hearings we often concentrate on areas where mistakes or errors are made or where improvements are needed. That sometimes overshadows the good work done. I wish to discuss with the NTPF representatives the suggestion that there is a perverse incentive for public work or work that...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Does Ms Brady accept that for a hospital that wanted to secure additional funding and reduce its waiting lists, there could be an incentive not to carry out that check?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Ultimately, this is an opportunity for hospitals to secure additional funding and reduce waiting lists.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Whether it was through their own companies or internally, I am asking, as the body responsible for reducing waiting lists and providing funding to do that by providing additional capacity, what steps the NTP has taken to ensure this is not used to provide additional funding and resources without the core and basic services being provided?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Is Ms Maher saying that because of the dates on the invoicing which ensures-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: What security does it give that it is not for work that should otherwise be carried out in the context of core activity?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: What level of detail is on the invoice to ensure it is not core activity?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: That is useful. The NTPF checks that the person is on the waiting list. Does it check how long the person has been on the waiting list?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Does the NTPF check whether there are disproportionate waiting times for particular cohorts of patients or for particular procedures in one hospital over another?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: What I am trying to get at is in a situation involving three hospitals, for example, does the NTPF looking for trends where core work may be being done outside of it? I am trying to get to the bottom of that. There is clearly an issue here in that there is a concern that core work may be done under NTPF-funded activity. The witnesses would accept that it would be an inefficient use of its...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Hospital management also has a responsibility to treat patients and to use all available resources to ensure that it carries out its activity.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I would argue that the NTPF is the body that is accountable to us to ensure that the money for which it is responsible is used efficiently.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: That is examined as part of the application process.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: The follow-on from that is that it is done on an individual application basis. Is there any retrospective audit that seeks to identify a trend? Initiatives might be justified, for example, in one case or another, but is there any attempt to identify whether there is a trend for a particular procedure or specialty or geographic location?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Yes. Where is all that data contained, managed, published and collated?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: In the context of all of the data that has been spoken about, namely the application, the audit of the relevant data and the management information that the NTPF collates, the difficulty for us is that we are trusting that what we are discussing is taking place. Is there any data source that I can look at to ensure that what the witnesses say about the applications phase is visible?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I would argue that whether it is the applications, an audit or a summary of the process, the best way to support the argument that core work is not being double-funded, as such, is to demonstrate that by means an audit of the NTPF-funded hours and how the applications are assessed on a generalised basis. As a member of the Committee of Public Accounts, that is my biggest question, and I do...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: That is useful. The NTPF might come back to the committee on it. I want to ask a question about nursing homes. We had a number of hearings regarding very significant concerns. I see a gap in the system here, where, essentially, the NTPF establishes the price, the HSE procures the service and HIQA establishes the minimum standards. A clear failure to deliver was evident in some of the...

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