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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: In that report, a reference was made to an incomplete report in 2006 from internal audit. Is Mr. Waters aware of that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Obviously Mr. Waters was not there at the time, but is he aware of when the Department became aware of that report?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Is Mr. Waters aware of when the Department first became aware of alleged financial irregularities in the Garda Training College in Templemore?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Is Mr. Waters telling me that was the first time the Department became aware of multiple bank accounts? Was the Department ever aware before the 2016 report was furnished that there were multiple bank accounts operating in the training college?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: That is what I want to get to because Mr. Waters told me a second ago that the first time the Department was made aware of the alleged irregularities which are in the internal audit was when he was presented with a copy in 2016. Obviously these alleged irregularities centre around a number of bank accounts. Mr. O'Callaghan, when was the Department made aware of the 40 plus bank accounts...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: May I stop Mr. O'Callaghan? Does Mr. O'Callaghan understand that when I ask a question, I expect the question to be answered. I do not want a history lesson. I want a straight answer to a question that was asked. The question Mr. O'Callaghan was asked was when was the Department made aware of at least 40 bank accounts operating. What day, what month and what year was the Department made...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: About 40 bank accounts plus?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: When was the Department made aware of the leasing arrangement in respect of the Dromod farm?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: When was the Department made aware that money was being generated from the lease of these lands and was being put into a bank account that was supervised by the Garda Training College?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Was it at that point?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: When was the Department made aware of the presence of what was called a laundry account? Is Mr. O'Callaghan aware of this laundry account that is cited in the internal audit report?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I am trying to establish when that was.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: To clarify, it was in September 2015 that the Department was first made aware of the existence of the laundry account and, we will say, almost all the issues that were cited in the interim audit report. Would that be fair?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: The witnesses would have been made aware there was essentially double charging of laundry and 38% of the money in the laundry account was used for purposes other than laundry. That is what is in the internal audit report. Was it in September 2015 that they were made aware of that as well?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: When were the witnesses made aware of the transfer of €100,000 to the Garda boat club?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Does the Comptroller and Auditor General know when the €100,000 was transferred? What year was it transferred?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: One of the predecessors to Mr. Waters would have been the Accounting Officer. Does that concern him?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Something has occurred. The witness says he read the interim audit report. He will be aware a reference was made to the transfer of this €100,000 to the boat club. We have not established exactly where that money came from and it is possible it could have come from voted expenditure. It was in an account with a mix of different revenue streams so this happened on the watch of the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: No. The Secretary General would have been the Accounting Officer in that period. We know the payments were made, as the Comptroller and Auditor General has said, between 2000 and 2003. It may have been inappropriate and it is alleged it was inappropriate. The witness was made aware of this in 2015. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

David Cullinane: What action did the Department take when it was made aware of that in 2015?

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