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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: It goes on the record without being read out, but it was read out in order to balance things.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I missed that answer, could Mr. Barry repeat it? I beg his pardon.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Fáilte romhat ar ais. I congratulate Mr. Barry. He was nominated by the Government and approved by the health committee. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: There was no interview process and it was a nomination plus an approval.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Thank you. We are back here because, quite clearly, there has been a huge overspend. None of us wants to be here, certainly not the members of the Committee of Public Accounts. I wish Mr. Barry the best. He gave us an opening statement today of four pages. He gave us a history lesson, partly, and he outlined things that have happened. We know that. It is why we are here and why we have...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: What did Mr. Barry think of its findings?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: What did Mr. Barry think of its findings? Let me help. The definitive business case was faulty and inaccurate. What is the PEP?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Thank you. The PEP was faulty, reporting back was faulty, there was a failure to challenge by the board and a competency-based board was unable to challenge what was coming up, there was undue reliance on the design team and so on. All of that was identified. Was any of that identified by the board prior to this?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Good. Where?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Mazars's internal audit service was to close out the review of the guaranteed maximum price in November 2018. The review of business continuity and disaster recovery, which is an aptly titled document, is from Mazars. Where else did Mazars say something?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Very good. Mr. Barry can imagine where we are coming from in terms of board competency. Honestly, I do not wish to be critical at all. I will come back to the Department in regard to what this is going to cost. We are up at €1.7 billion at the moment.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: To take the focus off Mr. Barry for a while, I make the point to Mr. Breslin that we are up at that price and it does not include an educational and research centre.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: What does it include?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I know all that but I want to know about what is additional. It builds a hospital. Does it equip it completely with everything besides the basic beds?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: What does equipping mean? Does it include all of the ICT?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I have the list.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: That reminds me of what was written down. What was the price that was written down on the previous debacle?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Some €35 million was written off. What is not included? I am confused at this stage with the Secretaries General, for whom I have the greatest respect, as to what the final cost is. I think we had somebody before us who could not answer in regard to a cost of €2 billion. What does that list not include?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I understand all of those and they should all have been identified before. That is what the report is telling us, namely, they were not identified and there is an optimism bias, and all of this other lovely language that led to huge increases in cost. My question to Mr. Breslin is this. What figure has the Department for a hospital that will be up and running, in addition to what Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Catherine Connolly: That is all.

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