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Written Answers — Department of Public Expenditure and Reform: Public Service Pay Commission Reports (1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: 28. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the discussions he has had with the Department of Defence with regard to the findings of the Public Service Pay Commission that retention is a key issue within the Defence Forces with pay a significant factor; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26055/17]

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: On a procedural note, we have just got notice that there may be votes in the Dáil on the Petroleum and Other Minerals Development (Prohibition of Onshore Hydraulic Fracturing) Bill 2016, the deliberations on which started at 10 a.m. By virtue of those of us here being from different parties, are we all paired so it will not disrupt this morning's session? If there are periodic votes,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I intend to stay here. It is just that-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: It is dated 24 October - the Commissioner thing. Is that the letter?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: That correspondence-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: We have a very brief time so I hope the witnesses will be distinct in their responses. I wish to ask all the witnesses a question that requires only a "Yes" or "No" answer. Do all the witnesses understand the role and function of the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General, the role and function of the Committee of Public Accounts and the role and function of internal audit? Is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I must say that I found Mr. Kelly's opening statement today to be very serious and alarming. It was almost explosive in its content. I am sure that Mr. Kelly would have been aware of that when he wrote his opening statement. He makes very serious allegations and I want to examine the allegations made in that statement. In his opening statement Mr. Kelly made reference to interference,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Say it again please for this committee. Who exactly? If Mr. Kelly does not want to give their names, he can gives their title and role.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: For the record of the committee, is Mr. Kelly saying that the chief administrative officer, who I would assume was the previous officer, Cyril Dunne-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Before that, and the executive director of finance, was that Mr. Culhane?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: -----and the chief superintendent and the administrator were all part of the non-co-operation, interference and withholding of information? Is that his view? Is that who he is talking about?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Is Mr. Kelly is talking about Mr. Culhane also?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Does Mr. Culhane believe he was part of the interference, non-co-operation or withholding of information from internal audit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: In his opinion, was Mr. Culhane part of the interference, non-co-operation or withholding of information from internal audit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Can Mr. Culhane answer the question please?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: We are dealing with very serious issues here. We have the head on internal audit alleging - it is his opinion and he is doing a body of work - that individuals were part of interfering with, not co-operating with and withholding information from an internal audit. By virtue of that, they were also withholding information from the Committee of Public Accounts, from the Comptroller and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I will refer to a couple of letters Mr. Culhane did write. We dealt earlier with a letter dated 24 October 2015, relating to Mr. Barrett and addressed to the Commissioner and other individuals. Does Mr. Culhane have a copy of the letter?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Culhane wrote that he had a number of concerns about Mr. Barrett, who had stated that the matter was not going away and that he would not let it go away. It stated that Mr. Barrett had said the Commissioner should make a section 41 disclosure and that the matter should be reported to the Comptroller and Auditor General. Mr. Culhane wrote that John Barrett had stated that if the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Culhane keeps saying that but I am not looking for context. Mr. Culhane said Mr. Barrett had stated that the matter was not going away and that he would not let it go away. The letter stated that Mr. Barrett had said the Commissioner should make a section 41 disclosure and that the matter should be reported to the Comptroller and Auditor General. Mr. Barrett had also stated that if the...

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