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Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I understand that. I emphasised the provision was in public. That is the provision of the 1993 Act. Senator O'Toole asked if there was a provision for the client to commit an offence. That provision exists in the 1993 Act.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I said "in public". That provision exists. Different sections of the 1993 Act refer to soliciting or importuning for purposes of prostitution, loitering for purposes of prostitution, organisation of prostitution, living on earnings of prostitution and brothel keeping. There are other aspects as well but they were the first few I could point out that are relevant to some of the issues that...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I will refer to it in a moment. She states that no one knows if there are fewer prostitutes. That is not surprising as the law could only serve to drive prostitution underground. It has been said that some of the neighbouring countries complain about an increase in the demand for prostitutes in there. The question is extremely complex. One former prostitute is quoted as saying that...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I referred the Senator to the 1993 Act from which he has quoted in answer to the question he raised, that a client could not be convicted. The Act refers clearly to the fact that a client soliciting in public can be convicted and the Senator has read out the section dealing with that. I did not say this Act dealt with all the issues that Senator Mullen raised. I quoted the lines Senator...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: It can be any of the three, the client——

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: ——the prostitute, the pimp or a third party. That is contained in the provisions in the Bill which the Senator will see if he has an opportunity to go through them again.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: No it can mean the person seeking to purchase as well.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: It was dealt with earlier.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: In response to Senator Mullen's comments on my introducing the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993 as a red herring, I referred to that Act in response to the question raised by Senator O'Toole. It was not introduced as a red herring but merely referred to in answering the Senator's question. I outlined the experience in this regard in Sweden. Senator Mullen doubts the existence of...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: Her name, and I hope I pronounce it correctly in my best Cavan accent, is Petra Östergren. She is quoted as having said that, "no one knows if there are fewer prostitutes". A former prostitute, whom I will not name, is quoted as having said, "underground profiteers, pimps and traffickers flourish and we would rather avoid them". That relates to the Swedish experience. To my knowledge...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I do not know if it was implemented.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: One of the British Home Office Ministers visited Sweden some time ago to study the impact of sex laws it had introduced. That trip was part of a six month review of British policy on prostitution. We all share a desire to deal with this evil issue. However, it is not an issue with which we will deal in this Bill, rather it is one on which widespread consultation is required.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: We need to get such legislation right. I referred to the British example, as Senator Mullen referred to Britain as being our near neighbour. Britain is involved in a consultation process. I am speaking in a personal capacity in stating that the issue of prostitution in the context of widening and improving our laws has not been discussed in government since I took office. We want to...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: We will have to revisit Senator Alex White's contribution on that.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: Senator Mary White rightly stated that our objective must be to communicate the message that such behaviour is not acceptable in this State. One way of ensuring it is not acceptable is to have a body of legislation in place that allows us to criminalise and prosecute those who abuse others in this way. Senator Mullen remarked that he appreciated the sincerity of certain individuals on this...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I will not be offended if the Senator does not include me in any roll call. However, I wish to put on record that the Government is sincere and determined in its objective to get this legislation right. We do not have to accept comments from any individual in regard to who is sincere and who is not. We are putting this legislation through the House and we are also putting in place the...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: No, Senator Mullen referred to "sincerity". There is no doubt about the sincerity of the people who spoke. Nor is there any doubt about my sincerity as I speak on behalf of the Government today. I wish to state that clearly.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I make that statement personally and on behalf of every member of the Government. That must be put clearly on the record. We will not ignore the observations of the Irish Human Rights Commission. It seems those observations are quoted here at length only when it suits people. The amendments tabled by Senator Alex White and his colleagues in the Labour Party and by Senator Mullen,...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: Absolutely. I hope I am not misrepresenting the Senator but that is my recollection.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: Senator Alex White spoke about the need for an holistic approach. The reality is that this Bill is part of exactly such an approach. The Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill 2008 and the national action plan are equally important measures. "Holistic" does not mean providing all the necessary protection services in one Bill. Senator Alex White also referred to victims' rights. It...

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