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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: These events are four years old. They cannot quote commercial sensitivity for a contract that has been signed, sealed, delivered and paid for.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: Commercial sensitivity does not last forever.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is my view on this. We will do both.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: We are doing the two steps now. We are writing to them for the unredacted version.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: We will ask our PLA to advise us because this is not the first time we have got something like this.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: We need to know where we are going with redacted documents as a general rule here at this committee. We will follow up both. I assure the Deputy the item will not slip off the agenda. No. 715 is correspondence from the Secretary General of the Department of Education and Skills dated 19 July in response to a request from the committee regarding the building of a boat on school premises...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: I call Deputy Cullinane and we will ask the Comptroller and Auditor General to respond in a moment.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: The committee has received regular updates from the Department of Education and Skills on a property-by-property basis. At this stage, we might write to the Secretary General requesting a detailed, comprehensive report on the two separate agreements because the public is confused as to which is the original. We will need the dates of the original agreements and the valuation dates - let it...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: We will ask that specifically in respect of cases where transfers have not been completed. Having seen previous reports, I am aware that it has regularly been the case that the use of properties has been taken over by the State during the period in which matters relating to land registry were in the process of being completed. I am not referring to this case. In other instances, however,...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: We will get clarification. Just because the process is not completed does not mean the State has not had the full value of it in the intervening period. However, clarification is needed.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes, we want completion. That is why I said I had heard excuses to the effect that matters had to be referred to the Vatican by certain orders on previous occasions. We will note the correspondence. No. 726B is correspondence from the Secretary General of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform following our meeting on 6 July. The committee had requested answers in respect of...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: We will write back to the Minister saying we want an immediate-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: We have quite an amount of correspondence following previous requests for information; practically everything. Witnesses are following through. The secretariat is keeping check of the outstanding requests and this is why this issue has arisen. We do ask for the information within ten working days, which is the normal way.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes. This has been going on for a good while.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: Absolutely. It is really in the Minister's hands because we know that, legally, the liquidator cannot do it and it is being passed around.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes, that is why we wrote it. We will send the strongest possible letter to the Minister personally. We need a response-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes, but we did understand that if the Minister is responding on this issue of making an ex gratiapayment, it may have to go to Cabinet. A Minister would not be able to unilaterally set a precedent in making an ex gratia payment for unpaid wages. That was mentioned before the summer.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: I agree. I believe a significant reason for Console ultimately going bust and into liquidation was that the Health Service Executive, the organisation's funder, was not on the case and allowed this to happen.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: The things that happened in Console were wrong, but the HSE-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes. The principal reason for this situation is a lack of action by the HSE.

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