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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Are they contemporaneous notes?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: So the letter dated 1 October 2015 is on the meeting with Assistant Commissioner Twomey, the Chief Administrative Officer, CAO, and potentially others. When was that written?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I refer to the memo that Mr. Barrett gave of that meeting, where he said that the meeting started at 5.27 p.m. and went on for about two and half hours.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: When exactly? How long after the meeting were the notes done?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I understand. We have ten minutes, Mr. Barrett. I would appreciate, given the time-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I want to know the date that the meeting took place and the date that he inputted the information to draft a memo or report.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Perfect. Mr. Barrett had a meeting with Mr. Howard on Thursday, 2 June. Was that in 2015?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Barrett drafted a memo for it. On what date did the meeting take place?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: How long after the meeting with Mr. Howard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: If the note was done seven weeks after the meeting took place, and it was done with a frame of mind that Mr. Barrett was concerned that Mr. Howard had not got back to him, and the tone of the memo seems to suggest that Mr. Barrett was a bit concerned about whether Mr. Howard was going to follow up on this or not, would that have influenced Mr. Barrett in what he wrote?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: When one writes something seven weeks later in a concerned frame of mind-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: -----it can influence what one writes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Barrett's note reads:Mr. Howard advised me of his deep respect for the Garda Organisation and of his close personal relationship with the Commissioner. He clearly advised me of his instinct as a 'life long civil servant' to avoid matters which could give rise to embarrassment and controversy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: What did Mr. Barrett mean by that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: What did Mr. Howard mean by "give rise to embarrassment and controversy"?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Poor Mr. Howard knows. Mr. Barrett wrote it and I want to know what he meant.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: When Mr. Barrett wrote his note did he have the impression that Mr. Howard was reluctant to deal with the matter?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: The phrase "his instinct as a 'life long civil servant' to avoid matters which could give rise to embarrassment" suggests to me an attitude of let us not rock the boat and not deal with the matter. Mr. Barrett went on to say that he would come back to him but he did not.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: The note continued: "He subsequently had a meeting with the Commissioner ... Previous meetings with Commissioners actually resulted in information not going to the C&AG's office." All of that suggests that Mr. Barrett was a bit suspicious of Mr. Howard's motives.

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