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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Consultants can do it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Let me outline scenarios. First, we know that there is already public debate about consultants on public contracts working in public hospitals, availing of public money and carrying out private practices in public hospitals. That is allowed, it is happening and consultants make money from the practice. I just gave the example of public money from a contract and private money from income...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I know there can be variances.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The figure referred to consultants working in public hospitals but having a public contract and a private income. First, they availed of public hospitals to carry out private practices. Second, they can incorporate the private income, which means they pay less tax. Then there is No. 3, which is the problematic one, potentially. If they were availing of expenses they should not have been...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Cody sees it as evasion then.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I fully accept that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I fully accept that. I am just putting on the record what the Revenue Commissioners came across and what the practice was. We have established that. Mr. Cody gave one example of a child who would be more proficient in media platforms or software or whatever, and they were offsetting some of those expenses. What other examples of fraudulent expense claims were there?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes, but Mr. Cody is here today.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I ask Mr. Cody to proceed then.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: What kinds of home expenses? I ask Mr. Cody to elaborate on that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Plasma TV screens?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Cody has already said-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: -----this is not carelessness. This is the thing.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I want to be clear. This was not some mistake; this was intentional. If one goes to the trouble of incorporating part of one's income, one does so because one wants to reduce one's tax liability, and that is allowed. I have my own view as to whether it is morally right but it is allowed. If one then goes to the further trouble of evading tax, that is intentional and purpose-driven. That...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Would it be possible then for somebody who had five, ten or 20 properties and was letting the properties out to incorporate that income?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I know it is a feature. I am just saying-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Cody came across examples of tax evasion in one area. He stumbled across it because of one hospital consultant. I understand completely that incorporating income is allowable, but people were going further than that and were evading tax. If it was done in this area, I think it is safe to say that this was not an outlier. It is safe to say that we could probably find similar instances...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I must put this to Mr. Cody: he only found out about what was happening with hospital consultants because of what emerged in respect of one consultant, so-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I ask Mr. Cody to bear with me. Had he not done that, he would not have been in a position to do the work he did to recover the €47 million or whatever it was that he recovered. Therefore, one can take it as read that this is happening in other sectors. I have given Mr. Cody one example. He is the person in charge of making sure we collect as much tax as possible. We already...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Review of Medical Consultants' Tax Affairs
Chapter 14 - Research and Development Tax Credit
Chapter 16 - Deferral of Tobacco Stamp Liability
(1 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: It is income tax.

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