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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Yes, well, what I'm asking is the yes or no part, after you make the approach to the bank; how quickly would you establish whether there was a strong likelihood that that bank was going to finance a project?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. By my calculations, Mr. Mulryan, of the €2.4 billion, give or take, that Ballymore owed in September 2008, almost €2 billion of that was owed to banks that ended up in NAMA the following year. You close your witness statement by saying, "In the case of Ballymore and NAMA's effectiveness, history will show that NAMA was effective in ensuring that monies borrowed were...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: 100%?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. The issue of the fact that 90% of the moneys owed were owed to Irish banks - and you address that as a weakness as such, in ... or a mistake in terms of the model that you pursued - how is it that ... given that you were so successful in the London market in particular, and one would imagine the large UK banks would be knocking on your door and wanting to get involved in providing...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: And did you have such opportunity to spread that business?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. Again, in September 2008 Ballymore owed Irish Nationwide €288 million. Can you just elaborate on how you would have built up such business with a building society which traditionally was there to help people on modest incomes to purchase a house? Can you elaborate on how you developed such strong business links with Nationwide?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. So, when, when we hear from NAMA, as we have heard in this committee, and other committees of the House have heard from NAMA, about poor loan documentation - not specific now to Nationwide, but generally, in the, the loans they came across from the participating institutions - poor loan documentation, cross-collateralisation, security not being properly pinned down legally, you, you...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay, on the issue of the amount of equity in, in projects, you, you address that issue on, on page 16 of your witness statement, and you say, "Ballymore ... utilised a range of funding structures, from 100% equity funded, to 100% debt funded (when available) to a loan to value range of anywhere from 60% to 90%, with 80% being typically available during the period." Were 100% debt-funded...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: And they took 50% of-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: -----the profits.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: And was that the first of its kind in the Irish banking system that you're aware of?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: '92.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: And did they persist with that model in-----?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. And, for the other banks you say that 80% would have been typically available during the period, 80% debt finance for a project. Was that the Ballymore experience?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: 70%, 80%. And where equity would have been put in by Ballymore, would that have been in the form of cash or would it have been unrealised equity gains from other developments, for example? This was a point that NAMA made, again, to the inquiry.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. Were personal guarantees a feature of your borrowings?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay, and prior to that it had been 1990 was the-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (22 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: -----the last one that you did? And in the intervening 18 years or so, is it that the banks weren't requesting personal guarantees from you, or that you were resisting attempts by the banks to secure personal guarantees?

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