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Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: Okay. We have not moved amendment No. 5.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: These amendments relate to the broadening of the definition of a medical practitioner who may participate in the provision of abortion services. We are calling for it to be expanded to other professionals within the health system. Such a practice is not unusual. The point is that we are innovating and bringing in legislation that should be state-of-the-art and up to date. For example, in...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: I will comment on what Deputy Durkan said because I fully agree that when one talks about a GP-led service, one rings one's doctor and one goes to the surgery. When one is pregnant, which is obviously much more serious, one often sees a nurse. I hardly ever saw a doctor. Perhaps people do not understand that is how GP-led services work. People should not make out that there will be a big...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: Are these not all being taken together?

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: Amendment No. 11 could be done first.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: Other amendments say the same thing.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: Amendments Nos. 11 and 12 are on the same matter.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: Could we move on to amendment No. 11?

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: Having listened to the Minister's remarks, I am still not clear how any of these amendments would limit doctors or medics. I do not think he has explained why the doctors and medics say that. There was a contradiction in something the Minister said on twins. The life of a foetus is the exact same as a pregnancy.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: It is. I would have thought the word "pregnancy" was more apt to describe the situation.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: The word "a foetus" singular.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: There is a problem with the word "foetus" because sometimes one is talking about an embryo and sometimes about a zygote. It is not the best definition in the world. I would have thought that "pregnancy" would be more all encompassing. There has been a suggestion by a couple of people who are against abortion that we are somewhat trying to sanitise the procedure by taking the word...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: Welcome to the world of the Opposition.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: I was going to suggest that we might be able to hear a bit more of this advice, particularly from the doctors. I do not want to be accused somehow of limiting the scope of doctors. We will withdraw the amendments but reserve the right to reintroduce them on Report Stage. We are just getting bogged down.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: I move amendment No. 10In page 6, line 13, to delete “intended to end the life of a foetus” and substitute “an induced abortion to end a pregnancy using a medical or surgical procedure”.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: I am speaking to amendment No. 12 but they are both similar. This is an important question. The Government itself is bringing in reviews of the Gender Recognition Act yet we are proposing legislation today that does not recognise transgender people. This is not just cosmetic. There is fear among trans people that they will be excluded should they go to their doctor. I will give the...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: We also have an amendment. I feel somewhat conflicted because this is an important issue and any time it is raised we receive this answer about legal advice to which we are not privy. I know the Minister is giving us a brief outline but it is still unclear. The gist of what he said was that if we insert "pregnant person" it could leave open the potential for somebody to take a legal...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: I do not see how inserting in the legislation "pregnant person", for example, could possibly have an impact on other laws. I do not see it. I am in a bit of dilemma. Obviously, there will be an opportunity to resubmit this amendment for a vote or debate in a full Dáíl, even if it is withdrawn today.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: I need to hear more. It is similar to the matter earlier about the definition of the law. We are getting only a glimpse and we need a bit more legal information about the rationale for the decision. One often hears wild claims, such as during the debate on repealing the eighth amendment, and, therefore, I am not fully convinced.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Ruth Coppinger: I do not wish to delay the matter.

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