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Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Okay. Why is it the case that the HSE is not a part of those negotiations? The Minister did touch on this aspect a few minutes ago but it seems ridiculous that there is an arm's length type of relationship, to say the least, between the HSE and the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. Did something get lost in the telling here, or is it a case of...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Essentially, then, the HSE and the Department were on the same page on this.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: It was the case in the main, though.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Okay. What negotiations was the Minister involved in? How often did he meet the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform in the run up to the budget?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Yes, but did the Minister attend any of those meetings?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Yes.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Okay. What were the main areas in which the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform did not accept the Minister's arguments in relation to funding?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Okay. Leaving aside, however, the new development funding, did the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform accept the figures in relation to demand and inflation that impacted the budget this year?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: No, I am not talking about individuals.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Okay. Surely, though, something like an inflation figure is not something that is negotiable. It either impacted the budget or it did not. One example we had concerned the energy bill for the HSE. In this case, there was a massive increase when the contract was renewed. Surely these types of figures can be established and stood up.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Yes.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Yes, okay. We would, though, expect that it would be a good thing if more people are being treated.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: No, I am saying that if more people are treated, then that should, presumably, be the objective to reduce the waiting lists.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: It is hard to see how waiting lists can be substantially reduced unless more people are treated.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: It does not make any sense to penalise the services for doing this, which is, effectively, what the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform is doing.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Okay. Fine. We do, though, need to get to the bottom of the fact that there was a breakdown in communications somewhere along the line. The Minister is saying the letter went to officials, and the most senior official is saying he never saw it. We must get to the bottom of that situation. Based on what we know is an underfunding of health next year, what does the Minister think are the...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Yes, all right.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: Well, it is very hard to see how this can possibly be the case. I mean, it is fine to express that view as an aspiration. It was expressed this year as well, back in March. It was written into the service plan, and we know it does have implications this year-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: -----in terms of recruitment freezes and a slowing down coming up to the end of the year. This is going to be inevitable next year again. At some point, someone will have to recognise the reality of what it costs to run a health service, especially one doing a lot of catching up and trying to do reform as well. This is a fundamental point that has not been accepted. May I ask the Minister-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

Róisín Shortall: I am sorry, but I am almost out of time and I just want to ask Ms McGirr a question. When she was in with us last, I asked her about a supplementary allocation going into the base for the following year. She told me that had happened on a couple of occasions in recent years. Is this still a possibility? Is there any possibility of this happening now in relation to the €1 billion?

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