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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I welcome our guests from the NTMA and thank them for all the information provided. I cannot say that I understand all of it but I have tried to read it. They have provided the information and it is up to us to ask the questions. I am seeking clarity on matters relating to rent, which I raised on the previous occasion. I refer to pages 111 and 113. The NTMA indicated that there were no...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I find Mr. Kelly very straight so I will keep questioning him. I refer to the NTMA's commitments which states that in 1991, 2007 and 2012, the agency entered into lease agreements of varying duration until 2017, 2026 and 2027. The NTMA is in the process of moving. Is it paying parallel rents?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I might be using the wrong word. At present, the NTMA is renting one building and another.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Then the NTMA will sublet.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: What is NTMA paying? The amount was approximately €1 million per floor when our guests were previously before us. How many floors was that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Does that include NAMA?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: So that is two floors and does not include NAMA. What else does it not include that comes under the NTMA's remit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The rent is €2 million in the current building. What is the cost of the new building?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: That is going from €2 million plus NAMA.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I am stuck and it would be helpful if I could get a note on exactly what the NTMA has been paying, what it will pay and how long the premises will remain empty before it is sublet. I would like it spelled out in the same manner in which the NTMA have spelled out everything.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I also want this for NTMA's sister companies. The NTMA's spending has gone from €2 million - €1 million per floor - to €7 million, but there are reasons for this and the NTMA is going to supply details in that regard.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: That may well be by square foot, but what about for the overall cost? A figure of €150 million was thrown out in the context of buying a new building. My view is that we should either build or acquire buildings. It is absolute madness and the State is part of the problem in the market. In this case, we need the details. There was no breaking of leases. Was NTMA given the option...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: If they are surrendered, is there a penalty clause?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I think of Galway and the daftness that went on there in renting. There was one appalling building at a cost of €1 million per year and when the lease was broken, a payment of over €1 million had to be made. There are penalty clauses if a lease is broken.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The NTMA is not going to break the lease. It will keep it and sublet. That is okay. We would like details of that. I turn to the financial statements and the weakness of financial controls that is referred to on pages 70 and 147. I refer to page 147 and the figure of €721,000.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: A weakness was identified in the context of internal controls. Was there an actual loss of €721,000 there?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The question was whether there was a loss. I am trying to get to simple language on it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I see. The gains are lower to the value of €721,000.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: How did that happen and what has been done to prevent it from happening again?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Mr. O'Kelly set out the situation in regard to the divestment fund in his opening statement. The NTMA continues to consider it. While researching this issue, I realised the Government had initiated a Nuclear Weapons (Prohibition of Investments) Bill in 2012. I had not been familiar with it previously. It was introduced but not enacted. It was an excellent Bill which was somewhat similar...

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