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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: That is quite serious.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I was here.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I want to be respectful to the Commissioner. I have listened to what she said and have sat through all the meetings on these hearings. All I want to do is establish the facts and the truth. The Commissioner weaves one narrative when asked questions on what she did because she wants to point out that on 27 July when she said she first became aware of this, she did everything she possibly...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: That is the view of the Comptroller and Auditor General. That is very serious because these letters give this committee the assurance it needs. I do not have an assurance that the Commissioner acted appropriately.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: My point-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: A final point on what the witness captured in one of her responses. She said that if she knew then what she knows now, she might have done things differently. The witness has heard from Mr. McCarthy that what she knew at the time was enough for her to alert his office. He said that the Commissioner should have alerted him at the time. To accept that if one were to go back in time, one...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: But she would do it differently now?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: But the Commissioner said that lessons have been learned.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: She has said that if something similar happened now and she was made aware of issues of a similar nature, she would report it to the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Does that mean she made a mistake by not doing so previously?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Waters says the Department was first informed of the irregularities at the Garda college on 1 September by email. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Does he accept that the Garda Commissioner says she was informed at the meeting on 27 July? It was four weeks after the July meeting that he was informed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Would he have concern about the time gap from 27 July, when the Commissioner was informed and when there was a meeting that Mr. Barrett attended? There are differences of opinion between him and the Commissioner on the nature of that meeting and what was discussed. Is it correct that it was however over four weeks before Mr. Waters' office was informed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: With respect, the summer period does not mean anything to me when we are talking about irregularities. People still have work and jobs to do. The summer period does not or should not interrupt due and proper process. Is Mr. Waters concerned that there was a time gap of four weeks before he or the Department were informed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I asked Mr. Waters was he concerned.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Was he not concerned? That is surprising because Mr. Barrett, who is the executive director of human resources, certainly would not agree with him. The head of legal affairs, Mr. Ruane, who seems to be somebody who did his job very well, certainly does not agree. I have a copy of a letter that Mr. Barrett wrote to the Garda Commissioner on 12 June 2017 about the meeting that took place on...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: It seems to me he was acutely aware of who should be informed of what but Mr. Waters is saying he felt the four week time period was reasonable. He did not agree. He got the seriousness of it and said that immediately before the work of the steering committee could go further, Mr. Waters should have been informed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: That is not what I asked, Mr. Waters. I am saying Mr. Ruane was very clear, if this note is correct, that Mr. Waters should have been informed immediately. I have asked the Comptroller and Auditor General if he was satisfied at not being informed. He said he would have preferred to be informed. I am asking Mr. Waters the same question. Mr. McCarthy clearly understands his role. He said...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I would be worried by the response Mr. Waters gave, the level of urgency and the significance he attached to these issues. I am only expressing my concern and Mr. Waters can account for himself.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I have limited time and I am not, with respect-----

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