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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Given that the Commissioner would have been at least aware of irregularities, is Mr. McCarthy satisfied the letter he received, dated 31 July 2015, where the Commissioner said she had disclosed all instances of loss fraud or irregularity is accurate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The Comptroller and Auditor General did say in the past he would have expected to have been informed, for example, of issues such as the establishment of a steering group or when there are issues of potential irregularities.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: What the Comptroller and Auditor General had said is that from 2008 onwards, his office should have been informed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: In all of the material that was disclosed to this committee, there was a letter from Mr. Barrett to the CAO. It was, in fact, a very extensive presentation. We are led to believe that it was the basis upon which the Comptroller and Auditor General was briefed. It says in the letter that there was potential that appropriation accounts had been compromised and signed off on by commissioners.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: How is it that we have a document from the head of human resources which talks about accounts being potentially compromised and then a letter sent by the Commissioner to Mr. McCarthy at the end of July in which she stated that there was no problem and that everything was okay. When she was briefed, she was aware of the irregularities. A steering group had been established. The head of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: That is not good enough, with respect. I have to insist on a decent-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Can I add an important point to that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: It is very important. Mr. Dunne was informed by Mr. Barrett that accounts were potentially compromised and then chaired a meeting of a steering group at which he said that he did not believe that external players should be informed. Is the Commissioner telling us today that Mr. Barrett gave an extensive report and briefing to the chief accounting officer, CAO, Mr. Dunne, talking about the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: That is not what I asked. Was the witness informed by the CAO that there was potential that accounts were compromised?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: And, possibly, we get information from witnesses-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: -----very late in the day as well, including opening statements.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I will helpfully suggest to the Commissioner that before she attends meetings of the Committee of Public Accounts she should confer with her staff to make sure that all up-to-date documentation and correspondence they have received is passed on to her. We had a situation where Mr. Nugent had information yesterday evening which was not passed on to the Commissioner. That is his fault, not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: People make mistakes and there is a lot of documentation. I understand all of that, but obviously we also have an awful lot of documentation to go through. As Mr. Nugent can see, we have to spend a lot of time going through the information. I just wanted to make that point first. In response to Teachta McDonald, the Commissioner earlier defended her position that when she first became...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The Commissioner stands over the fact that she took decisive action.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Why did she take decisive action?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Why? Why did the Commissioner take decisive action?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: When did the Commissioner take this decisive action? After what period of time?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: When did the Commissioner first become aware? Did she say 26 July or 27 July?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The Commissioner first became aware of the situation on 27 July and she stands over the fact that she took decisive action, because she wanted to regularise the accounting practices in the Garda Training College.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The Commissioner wanted to do so because she accepted they were irregular.

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