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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. So you were informed of one credit committee meeting in a period of 22 months-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: -----at a time when the society was lending millions of euro-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: -----in commercial property land development? Absolutely. Thank you.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Thank you very much, Chair. You're very welcome, Ms Harney and Mr. Gormley. You said there, Mr. Gormley, that the Government was misled by the banks which implies belief, on your part, that the banks knew that the situation was more serious than had been presented. Is that what you're saying?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Sure. When you say a problem, do you mean that they were insolvent?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. But you don't have any evidence for that, it's just a belief.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Ms Harney, do you share that view that the Government was misled?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Sure. Mr. Gormley, when you had the conversation with Brian Lenihan at two in the morning and he invited you in as such, and you asked him the question, "Are we going with the David McWilliams option?", how did you know that Minister Lenihan knew what the David McWilliams option meant? Had there been a discussion at Government level or a bilateral one between you and Minister Lenihan where...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Just to clarify, when you said, "the David McWilliams option", what did you understand to be the David McWilliams option?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. I have asked that page 1 of the appendix would be put up on the screen, this is the e-mail correspondence. And towards the bottom of the page there, this is an e-mail from Mr. McWilliams on 26 September to yourself Mr. Gormley, "...for the Green Party, agreeing to the present Lenihan package will be political suicide as you will never be forgiven by the electorate and the Greens will...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Did he relay that directly to you or was that through Mr. McWilliams-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: And over the page he sets out a proposed solution, a full Government guarantee of all deposits for two years, not shareholder funds - they took a gamble, tough luck. He goes on to say that the Department of Finance is worried that people will call the Government's bluff and they will have to come up with the cash for this, "Believe me, this will not happen." So the view being put forward...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Just to clarify, at the top of that page under "Solution" a full Government guarantee of all deposits for two years - not shareholder funds. What did you interpret that as meaning in terms of bonds for example?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: That it would be just deposits included?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay, so prior to his e-mail to you of 26 September, you had no inclination that Minister Lenihan may have had a preference for nationalising Anglo and Nationwide?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. So that came to you via Mr. McWilliams by way of that correspondence?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Okay. And the meeting of Government on 28 September, I think Ms Harney you said that largely dealt with fiscal measures which were being planned. There was some discussion about the emerging liquidity issues in the banks, is that the case?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: But there was no indication of what was to come 24 hours later or so?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Mr. Gormley you mentioned in your statement that you met with the Taoiseach and the Minister in the ante-room opposite the Cabinet room but that was a very brief discussion, is that right?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

Michael McGrath: Can I just take you back a little bit? The financial markets had been in turmoil really since August 2007. We had queues outside Northern Rock here in Dublin in September 2007. We know that from January 2008, the Department of Finance was preparing scoping papers around the issues of financial stability, was looking at contingency planning, including nationalising banks and consideration...

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