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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The note of the minutes of the meeting say, "The CAO noted that work has progressed on this matter for a number of years and the CAO pointed out that the group will consider whether external involvement is warranted but it is not required at this point in time." When I put those questions to Mr. Dunne when he was before the committee, he said that it involved and included the Comptroller and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Did the Commissioner's office specifically inform the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General at any point?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Why not? Is the Commissioner not the Accounting Officer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: It is directly through the Commissioner's office because I went around the houses on this issue. This is why the Commissioner was brought in to the committee last. We had the different heads of Departments before the committee and when they were asked about why they did not give information to the Comptroller and Auditor General's office, they said that it was to do with their superiors....

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Which is?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: That is the Commissioner, and she did not do it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: No, it is not about the Commissioner's understanding. With respect to the Commissioner, we cannot have a situation where we go from heads of Departments, to senior gardaí, to the Commissioner before the committee today and the Commissioner is still saying it is someone else's role. We have heard it from the Comptroller and Auditor General that it is the Commissioner's job, the buck...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The office was not informed. It was the Commissioner's job to inform them. She wrote to the-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: No. The Commissioner or her office should have done it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The Commissioner has the responsibility to make sure it is done. Whoever does it is irrelevant. The Commissioner is the Accounting Officer. What she did-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I am just getting to an important point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: We have already heard from the Comptroller and Auditor General that ultimate responsibility rests with the Accounting Officer. He or she needs to make sure the work is done. I want to refer to a letter the Commissioner did send to Mr. McCarthy, which he has furnished to the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The letter is dated 31 July 2015. Was this before or after the Commissioner was made aware of irregularities at the Garda College?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Will Mr. McCarthy clarify if it is a letter of representation or a letter of understanding?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: What is a letter of representation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I will read it. The Commissioner says thatI confirm to the best of my knowledge and belief, and having made appropriate enquiries of my officials of An Garda Síochána, the following representations, which are given to you in connection with your audit of the Appropriation Account for Vote 20 ... for the year ended ... I am satisfied that the expenditure and receipts disclosed in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: No, sorry, that is not the case. I asked the Commissioner earlier and she was very clear with this committee that she first became aware of irregularities in the Garda College in July 2015. She was briefed on the issues, she had a meeting with Mr. Barrett, and, I take it, others also, but she was most certainly aware of the issues involved and that these issues were historical, going back...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: With respect, the Commissioner is counting down the clock.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: With respect, the Commissioner is.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I make that charge because I believe it to be the case. I want to put a question to Mr. McCarthy.

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